Garmin digital sonar

[rogerbum]

Is anyone using a Garmin digital sonar system (GSD 22 or similar) hooked to a networked display? If so, how does it compare to other finders you have used? I need to put a decent fish finder on my new TomCat and the appeal of the Garmin system is that it has video out so I can run an LCD display from it to the cockpit to be able to view the sonar (and or radar) from there. That's far cheaper than getting another display as I can rig up a cheap LCD computer display to 12V for around $200.

[Matt Gurnsey]

Furuno also offers video output, as does the new Simrad, and of course Raymarine.

The one problem with your idea is that most inexpensive LCD montors won't be bright enough to use in daylight situations outdoors.

Just an FYI.

[rogerbum]

Matt,

That's a good point but I think I can probably find some decent daylight viewable LCD for far less than another $1500-2500 display unit. As for choice of manufacturer, I keep going around and around on this. For GPS, there's no doubt in my mind that Garmin is the best in terms of user interface and mapping. I hate Raymarine since the UI is so non-intuitive. Lowrance is OK in this regard but the screen refresh is quite slow and the maps don't seem as nice as Garmin. I haven't played with Furuno or Simrad GPS and sonars.

For the fish finder, Lowrance appears to be the leader. I'll probably get add the broadband sounder to the current 8200 that came with the boat. That will give me a good fish finder and a backup GPS and I just can't see throwing out a perfectly good 8" chart plotter.

The remaining issue is my primary GPS and radar. For radar, Furuno appears to be the leader but if I do the leader in all 3 categories, I'm buying 3 displays. Hence, I'm considering a Garmin unit since I really like Garmin GPS and then I will add both radar and sonar to it. That will provide me with a backup sonar on the Garmin and with primary sonar on the Lowrance. Primary GPS on the Garmin with backup GPS on the Lowrance and only one source of radar on the Garmin. Coupled with my handheld GPS and the Navionic GPS program on my phone, I know I'll never be lost. If I lose a transducer on a long and remote fishing trip, I'll also have a backup. If I lose radar, I'll just have to go slow and stay out of the shipping lanes until I get it fixed.

Any comments on the above would be appreciated as there's so many options with electronics it can be tough to make a firm decision.

[journey on]

Roger,

I'm a little confused. You mention Furuno, your phone and Garmin, without mentioning the map data source.

I'm not sure what Garmin uses, but maybe it's G2 Vision charts. Though I notice that Defender is closing them out. Your phone apparently uses Navionics data. Would this come from a chip or over the ether? And I thought that phones were to talk over, which says how old I am. And Furuno offers the choice of C-Map or Navionics, and let's not discuss which one is better.

It seem to me that a common data source would be a prime requirement, since the data chips all cost money. And it would be nice if there was some interchangeability/interoperability.

I guess I would appreciate your thoughts on this melee of cartography.

And just to give you an additional choice, Koden sells a radar that will plug directly into your laptop. A 15" screen for $700 and the radar costs ~$2100. Plus $400 for the software. Total is $3200 vs $600 for big screen radar/charting with overlays.

Boris

[rogerbum]

Boris,

Most of the units I am looking at have the coastal maps pre-loaded for the entire U.S. With the newer Garmin units, the Blue chart or Blue chart 3D maps just add some additional views (3D, satellite imagery etc.). On the phone, I've got the Navionic charts downloaded and in permanent memory. The charts to cover the Puget Sound through to Alaska was included in the price for the "BC Maps" and the total cost was about $13 for the software and the maps. The Lowrance unit that came with the boat has a pretty decent basemap for the area but uses Navionics chips. But in general, even if the map data is the same the format on the chips is proprietary and not exchangeable between different manufacturers.

My take on things is that Lowrance has the fish finders, Garmin the best GPS and Furuno the best radar. The boat came with an 8" Lowrance 8200 chart plotter. It's OK for GPS, OK for radar but could be made into a great fish finder with the additional purchase of a Lowrance broadband sounder unit and a transducer. The total cost to do that is about $700. That would give me a great sonar on an 8" display and I could use the GPS as a backup unit. Then I have to solve the radar problem and get a primary GPS. Since I think Garmin makes the best GPS systems, and I'm fairly convinced that for my purposes I'll be happy with most any radar (especially when I add AIS to the GPS), that leads me to look at Garmin units that are radar capable. All of these are also sonar capable and many come bundled with sonar for not too much more. With video out, they would even allow me to put a second display in a window on the rear bulkhead so I can see the display from the cockpit. So that's the rough idea/plan unless I hear from others that some aspect of this is terrible.

Now as to phones only being used to make calls ---- that's soooooooo 1999.

[kevrangray]

I've been looking at the Garmin 541S and will more than likely be purchasing it this weekend. I'm thinking the price of it was 669.00 through Anchorexpress.com This normally goes for 800.00 at Bass Pro Shops and Cabella's. Prior to purchasing check this website out because you might be able to locate the one you are currently looking at cheaper and not have to pay sales tax either.

Hope this helps,

Kevin

[jkidd]

Roger

I use a GSD 22 on Voyager it works just fine. That being said I use a Eagle 350c $199 on the Kayaks and it works fine to. I like the Garmin user interface better than Ray so I just stayed with them.

[lloyds]

I have a Garmin 541, wish I had my 192C back. During my 2 weeks in the gulf islands I got to spend a lot of time with the 541 and really don't care for it. Refresh can be slow, tide functions really slow, extra key strokes that weren't there for the 192C. I still like Garmin but I personally think they have taken a couple wrong turns on some of their products.

[Matt Gurnsey]

I had a boat with the 541s on it and really displiked the interface. Changing some functions requires stepping out of the display to the menu, stepping into the menu, and then getting back to the home page to get back to where I was a minute ago.

As far as chart cards, newer units are using a standard chip style. Furuno NAVnet VX2 uses SD cards, and the Lowrance used Micro SD cards (which, with an adapter can fit into tsnadard SD slots).

I would spend some time poking around on a newer Garmin, as their user interface is not as good as the last generation, in my opinion.

BTW- the broadband sonar is available on Simrad products as well, as they are the big brother of the Lowrance product, both owned by Navico.

Furuno benefits from being the only manufacturer with a commercial product line, and that technology works its way down their line to the smaller units. Furuno isn't big on flashy "gee whiz" gimicks (for lack of a better word), just buidling good , solid units. When you look at guys who use their boats to make a living, you'll see a lot of Furuno on them.

Furuno's philosophy is to be able to service any unit they sell for at least 10 years after they stop selling it. Garmin stops supporting product not long after they stop production. It's the difference between disposable product and product designed for long term life and usability.

[thataway]

There was a recent discussion of the viewability of LCD moniters on the Trawler and Trawlering list. Most of the available LCD and LED moniters are just not bright enough. 800 nits is probably the miminum you can get by with for daylight veiwing--unless you put a hood on it. Plus most of the units are not water proof. 1000 nits and 5/1 contrast is better. Brightness is measured candelas per square meter or nits. The "guts" in the 5" and 12" GPS plotters are about the same--the big difference in cost is because of the cost of the displays.

You are spot on with your analysis of the strengths and weakness of the various units (some would disagree about Raymarine).

I would go for the broad band sounder by Lowrance, or if you want to go up one more notch, the side and bottom scan unit. (I am assuming that your Lowrance unit will accept these upgrades). The problem with Lowrance has been service, especially in some of the newer units. I have had the Lowrance XD units on the Tom Cat and mine has worked very well.--with a very good sounder.

Another option is to put a cheaper sounder in the cockpit--this is what I have done in many of the larger boats we had. There are some color Lowrance sounders which are in the price range of even the cheap moniter.

[Grumpy]

Roger,
Just to confuse the picture further.
See Panbo today.
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2010/09/simrad_bsm-2_broadband_broadband_sonar.html#more

Merv

[Captains Cat]

Roger I had a GSD22 hooked up to a GPSMAP 182C on my 22. Worked great, better than the Raymarine digital I've got hooked to my E-80 on the Tomcat.

[flrockytop]