"Trim Master" Trim Tabs

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From: 2nd Byte (Original Message) Sent: 2/3/2003 6:24 PM
I decided to order the Trim Master trim tabs 12' x 9" for my 22 CD. Power Boat magazine ranked them and Bennett at the top. The price was too good to pass up. I paid 299.99 for mine. They are on Ebay at from 299.99 to 325.00. I won't be able to put them on until and we get some warm weather, but will give a report when I do.

Mark

From: kenonBlue-C Sent: 2/3/2003 7:01 PM
Mark, I've been eyeing those e-bay Trim Master tabs, am anxiously waiting your report

From: C-LionRay Sent: 2/3/2003 10:51 PM
Me too...

From: Mike Sent: 2/5/2003 10:48 PM
Now then, all you guys who are putting trim tabs on your CD's: The first two-and one-half minutes of running with the things, you will probably say to yourselves, "Why in the world did I put these things on?" Or, if you're like me, you'll think, "How am I going to explain this wasted four hundred bucks to my wife when I jerk them off of there?" But, ten minutes later, you will be glad you have them, and a couple days later, you will not be able to imagine running without them. Just remember, when the instructions say to make adhustments with half-second bursts on the switch - they mean it! The first trial with my boat, I was running without the kicker motor hanging off the transom. There was also a good bit of chop on the river, and the boat seemed really squirrelly at first. After I found out that you don't even use the lower half of the tab travel, and that you pay attention to the operating directions, they were good. The first cruise up the river with Kay chasing the dog around the cabin, and I was hooked. Just like Dusty once said, the tabs would be one of the last extras to be without.

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/6/2003 12:51 AM
Thanks for the input Mike, there have been times when I felt I really needed the tabs and bemoaned the fact that I didn't have them. You only go around once, so no sense standing short in the land of plenty! Besides, when the "Dustmaster" speaks.................everybody listens!




From: Sawdust Sent: 2/6/2003 8:52 AM
Aargh! As a famous Alaskan sez. When Dusty speaks, his Diane sez, "Yer wrong. Now sit - and shut up."

Tabs are good - and don't have them on the T-cat. Lonesome George.

Dusty

From: Fun Patrol Sent: 2/6/2003 9:59 AM
For you tab guys:

I was wondering if adjustment is even needed on a tab system. It seems to me the added waterline length and leverage of a fixed tab in-line with the hull would do a lot to put the bow down. I would think that any adjustment up would result in a return to the characterisitics of no tabs, rather than raise the bow. And it seems that putting them down past in-line with the hull would create drag.

I can see how you could compensate for side to side list, but I just deal with that by moving weight.

Roy

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/6/2003 11:40 AM
Only 'cause yer not needin' 'em, Dusty. Say, It has to be getting fairly close to launch time, isn't it?

We're all waiting for that. Matter of fact, you're gonna' have a boatload of "Brats" with you on your maiden voyage, without the addition of weight or the loss of space. You may have trouble seeing us, but we'll be there!

Appreciate the Radar tutorial, 'ole bud.

Mark

From: Mike Sent: 2/6/2003 12:03 PM
Roy -

That is pretty close to right about little need for tab adjustment once you find the sweet spot. I do use them a lot for lateral trim, because my wife can't sit still very long. You still have to have the ability to retract them fully in following seas or wind chop, because the boat gets pushed around a lot more with them down even a little. I don't know if that is more pronounced with the shallow C-Dory hull than it is on the deeper hulls, but it is one thing I do not care a whole bunch for. You also want them up when you enter an inlet with weird currents. Another thing I found is you don't want to power up from idle or stop real sudden if the tabs are down, and you want to make your turns just a little wider to keep the prop in the water. If you change cruise speed, you can optimize the engine efficiency with slight adjustments. The Honda 75 seems to run the same RPM at throttle position regardless of the load, but the tab tuning can affect the GPS speed by as many as 3 mph without touching the throttle. I am fiddling with the buttons all the time. It is quite surprising how much effect it has when I bump the switch as quickly as I can push it and release.

Mark - Your message to Dusty is right on the nose! Thanks from all of us who will be aboard C-Salt with you for the first launch.

Mike


From: Sawdust Sent: 2/6/2003 4:59 PM
Thanks guys,

C-Salt showed up at EQ yesterday - got my first look after the factory did some changes. I'm happy, but Les Jr. has a kind of 'what next' look in his eyes -- like he already has more on his plate than he can eat -- and dad is gonna be on his case -- pacing, pacing -- your know how dads are. It will be hard for me to stay away, but he doubles his shop rate if I'm looking over his shoulder, and I will. We hope she's in the water in a couple of weeks, and one way or the other plan to make the OLY gathering. Must do a christening of some kind -- with beer?

Mike old bud, don't let me run you away from radar with all of the heavy-duty bs... it's a great tool, and any skipper that has one will tell you that. Priority? Probably not the way you boat -- but then I don't know the way you boat. Those beautiful sturgeon won't know whether you've got one aboard or not. But...

When I came to the Sequim Bay bash, the weather was absolutely flat - but foggy. Beautiful, as you remember. The old fart was laid back, listening to the stereo cranked up at least half-staff -- scanning ahead with about 50 yard visibility -- had the radar alarm set for 100 yards. Radar buzzed a warning, looked at the scope and I've got a target walking down the scope from my 6 or 7 o'clock on a steady bearing, and closing fast. Whee... turned hard starboard (right, I think) -- gotta check my cuff links for color -- then pedal to the metal. Aluminum crabber goes screaming by at about 50 yards or less -- NO RADAR on the stupid SOB. And he was flat out moving... I'm guessing at least thirty -- in the fog. He might have been able to turn when/if he saw me, but it would have been close. Score one, radar.
Only happens once in a great while, but it only takes once. And you thought you'd get away without a bunch of bs?
Fergit it.

Dusty

From: Redƒox Sent: 2/7/2003 7:16 AM
Only one thing to add to this discussion. Speed. The adjustment sensitivity on the tabs are speed related. The faster you go the faster they respond, and the more effect they have on turning.
Have fun with those babys Mark!

Well that's it for me. Gotta go.
Greg

From: Redƒox Sent: 2/7/2003 7:20 AM
One more.
The dual piston sport tabs I use, respond about half as fast as the single piston tabs. Same pump working twice the amount of fluid as a single piston tab setup.

From: kenonBlue-C Sent: 2/7/2003 7:28 AM
Greg, good to see you're still kickin, you mean to say that your tabs are only halfast?

From: Chuck S Sent: 2/7/2003 8:18 AM
Since these pumps are DC motor driven can they be slowed down by cutting the voltage to them, perhaps with a toggle switch to allow full speed as needed? DC motors are pretty easy to control for speed.

-- Chuck

From: Moskwass Sent: 2/7/2003 8:44 AM
One could put restrictors in the lines as well
small valves that could be adjusted
Roger

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/7/2003 9:18 AM
Well, after reading Mark's note and others regarding Trim Master, I bit the bullet and ordered up a set of 12x9's for Da Nag.

I don't know how long the "special" will last, but I didn't need to go through eBay - they were happy to sell them direct for $300. If any of you call, make sure and mention the C-Brats - me thinks it's a good idea to let vendors know where sales are coming from.

I spoke with Dan the other day (he's registered here), and Roy today when I ordered. Both were every bit as friendly and helpful as the folks at Bennett, and their product sounds promising. Like Mark, I'll put up a review after installing them.

Bill

From: Mike Sent: 2/7/2003 9:48 AM
Naw, maybe I wasn't clear on what I was saying. There is no problem with the operating speed. You just have to remember to not hold the button down. Just like you have to remember to not hold the throttle down when approaching the dock. Quick acting is good.

From: Sundown Sent: 2/7/2003 10:36 AM
Bill,
The 9x12 on the web site are $490.00. Are you saying they will sell them to one of us for $300? If so, I am going to order a set also. Did you happen to ask how much a trim meter would cost? Thanks
Larry

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/7/2003 10:57 AM
That's correct, Larry. The eBay opening bid price is 299.99, with a "Buy It Now" price of $325 - this link of eBay search results will usually bring up their eBay ad.

However, when I called them directly and asked about the eBay pricing, I was offered the opening bid price, with no need to go through eBay.

Bill

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/7/2003 10:59 AM
Larry,

Didn't ask about the trim meter, but had my eye on that as well. Let us know if there's a deal to be had on it too.

Bill

From: Sundown Sent: 2/7/2003 11:20 AM
Ok Bill,
I will let you know. It will probably be early next week before I call.
Larry

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/7/2003 11:47 AM
Bill is exactly right. The bid price of $299.95 is the price that they are available for direct from Trim Master if you contact them directly. I found, as Bill did, that they were extremely helpful and informative. I believe the $325.00 covers the transportation as well as the tabs. Whatever they appear to be good a good price and accomodating folks.

Mark

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From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/7/2003 1:12 PM
Hey Red Fox,

Good to hear from you! Don't worry, I'll have fun with the tabs. Fun is the name of the game!

When are you going to be in Bellingham and have you got a contact point there, just in case.

Mark

From: Redƒox Sent: 2/7/2003 11:15 PM
Hi Ken and Mark. Good topic here. And it's good to be still kickin' by golly;)

We do have an old Alaskan friend from yesteryear, to stay with there in Bellingham. Mom was talking with me today on the teleo-phone, about seeing my Brats in Oregon also, sounds like she is up to some more travelin:) when or if Lily and I get there to Boise. Should be soon. Then we will head thata direction. (the good ol' West) OK back to the tab discusin'....

I was not suggesting the trim tabs are oversensitive, all the time. Just when your really cookin' along, at maximum speeds, they are. At slow speeds they seem too slow in adjustments. Not a biggy though, easy to get used to.

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/8/2003 7:22 PM
Got the Trim Master tabs in today and they look real good.
They have a modest turned down edge on the side to help hold the water and give a little added strength, and they look plenty stout.

The toggle switch that come with the unit are a little different than the others I have seen. They look great and ergonomically are going to be very nice to use.

Mark

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/8/2003 9:54 PM
If you wanted to add the trimometer at a later date it appears to be a simple add on. No disassembly of the tab mechanism is necessary.

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/14/2003 4:43 PM
I received my TrimMaster 12x9 tabs yesterday. As Mark noticed, they appear to be of top-notch quality.

After spending most of the morning trying to install the hinges on the transom, I found myself cussin' and pulling what little hair I have left out. TrimMaster's instructions are pretty similar to Bennett's - align the tab with the bottom of the hull using a straightedge, raise it 1/2" or so, mark and drill some holes, and screw the suckers on. Sounds easy, and it probably is if you have an assistant or a third hand.

Given that I was on my own, I took a different approach that worked much better. This is a simple tip, but perhaps it will help out someone else out with their installation.

Cut a piece of 2" painter's masking tape a little longer than the hinge, and roll up the edges. Stick it to something smooth and clean - I used a glass table top.

Line up the top of the hinge with the top edge of the tape (Picture 1), and trace the edges and the screw holes (Pic 2).

Laying the tab on a flat surface, measure the height of the hinge. Add 1/2" to this to figure out how high above the bottom of the hull the top edge of the hinge should be.

Transfer the tape to the correct location on the transom and drill the holes through the tape. This also helps in preventing gelcoat damage.

Remove the tape, fill the holes with your sealant of choice, and screw it on.

Worked for me - tabs were positioned perfectly, and screw holes lined up exactly.

Bill

From: Mike Sent: 2/14/2003 4:55 PM
Not only nerds make templates, you know, millwrights do it sometimes! Good thinking. That's the kind of thing people usually think of AFTER the project. If you were hanging the things on the side of your house, you probably wouldn't think twice about it. It takes a little more courage to drill the hull of your boat below the waterline.

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/15/2003 2:03 AM
Yep, on some of these jobs it would be nice to have four hands instead of two but then your clothes wouldn't fit worth a hoot. Sounds like you solved that minor problem with ease and dispatch. I'll be working with only my two, err, 1,2, yeah, two hads a well so I'll use that tip. Thanks.,,Ok, so the tabs are on. Did you finish the balance of the installation yet and how did that go.

It supposed to get down to -30 Sunday which is a reminder that my mounting project is still aways off.

Mark

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/15/2003 2:42 PM
Another tip on the TrimMaster installation...

The pistons come with a brass tube that threads into the back of the top mount, and passes through the transom. On the transom side, the tube has a compression fitting, to which you directly attach the high pressure line.

The problem - the tube is a little long for the C-Dory transom. It doesn't leave much room behind the tanks. While it would probably work, the tubing is not very flexible, and I felt forcing it into a tight radius behind the tank might put too much stress on the compression fitting, resulting in a leak or failure down the road.

Instead, I made a trip to the hardware store for some replacement fittings.

On the piston side, I replaced the supplied 4" straight brass tube with a 3 1/2" brass tube and an elbow with a compression fitting. You can see them side-by-side here.

I'll be mounting the pump between the tanks on the transom, up against the bottom of the motor well. It also had straight compression fittings, which I replaced with a compression elbow. You can see the pump, with one old and one new fitting here.

With these two minor modifications, the plastic high pressure line now runs relatively straight, and takes up less room under the motor well.

Bill

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/15/2003 10:35 PM
Trim Masters "Trinometer" lists out at $295.00. Dan said he would sell them for $200.00. About a third off, but still quite a few bucks. Would be nice though.............hmmm.


From: Mike Sent: 2/16/2003 10:42 PM
Hey Mark -

If the trim meter is an easy add on after the fact, I would suggest waiting to see if you even need it. I thought when I first put my tabs on that the indicator was a must have, but now I don't see that I would even use it for much. If you want to get the tabs all the way up, it is just as easy to hold the buttons down as it would be to look at the meter. You can tell by the sound of the pump when they reach the end of the stroke (at least with the Bennetts you can, the pump runs for both directions). If anything, I would spring for the auto-retract gizmo Bennett sells. It brings the tabs to fully up when the key is shut off or you tell it to do so. If I have the tabs set for the best cruise and I stop for some reason, I usually just leave them where they are and take off slowly to get back to plane. When you are fine tuning the things, it isn't so much where the indicator says they are as how the boat is reacting anyway, so picking a favorite spot on the indicator would not be consistent. Even if the TrimMaster system is different, the way the hull reacts to the tabs will be pretty much the same.

Geez - you ever wonder how some inexperienced guy like me can write so much about a subject he is still learning for himself? I will always defer to those more learned.

Mike

PS - give me a week before you order an outboard bracket. Tim and I were looking at mine today, and I got to thinking how easy it might be to make the bracket hardware out of a couple pieces of 1/8' stainless steel. Then you can come up with your own mounting board. When I get some time, I'll measure them and draw up a sketch on AutoCad to figure out where to bend the brackets. No promises.

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/16/2003 11:37 PM
Yo Mike,

I wasn't going to whip out an order for the "Trimdicator". I've gone the route of "must haves" before (too many times) only to find that it is not a functional need. I recall Bill was curious and I thought I would post the info. I will have to say that it sounds pretty neat on the surface (no pun intended) and I had logged away the thought. There again, easy enough to retract the tabs w/ the toggles. What you say makes a lot of sense. It would be an ever changing thing, trimming the boat, especially when the silvers are jumping into my soft cooler when I open the zipper. and the grandkids rumbling around the cockpit. As to experience, I consider you a pretty experienced guy, and you are only allowed to defer after I have.

I'll hold the bracket in abeyance for a while, but don't
get too carried away. Cripes Mike, you have a full plate as it is. The last thing you need is another project.

Glad the barbecue and gathering went great. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was there, just hard to spot.

Mark






From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/17/2003 12:23 AM
Hey Mark,

Just uploaded a photo of the starboard trim tab and piston, mounted behind the kicker bracket we talked about (TH Marine Mini-Jacker).

It was a pretty tight fit, but it worked.The top two screws were too high up for a regular drill bit - the chuck wouldn't clear the bottom of the backet. Had to purchase an 12" long 3/16 bit to get the holes drilled - $4 a hole, cuz I'm sure I'll never need it again...

Bill

From: kenonBlue-C Sent: 2/17/2003 8:32 AM
nice looking install job Da Nag, you guys got me thinking I need trim tabs now, so I've crafted up a sign and am headed to downtown Portland for the day
My sign;

WILL WORK FOR TRIM TABS

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/17/2003 11:50 AM
Hi Bill,

Very nice, sanitary looking job on the tabs. Looks really great! I know the feeling of needing a specific item for a one time application but I've resigned myself to that particular fact of life. i'm assuming that you probably haven't hung the pump yet. I am still vascillating on where I am going to lodate mine. Something to be said for minimiizing the point to point line runs.

I am really eager to get going but I'm afraid that I'll have to wait for a warmer spell. -20 right now. Not only cool to work in but that glass has got to be brittle.

B-C, hope your sign is bigger than 12 pt letters. Do they allow you to carry sandwich sign in downtown Portland without a permit? Might as well resign yourself to tabs............more is better!....? #$#$#$#$

Mark

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/17/2003 12:21 PM
Hey Mark,

Finished most of the install yesterday. I mounted the pump on the transom, next to the starboard tank. Didn't want to mount it in the middle, as I'll probably move my batteries next to the port tank to free up my starboard locker, and move some weight to port to help offset my fat butt and the kicker.

Picture of the pump installed is here - I temporarily hooked up the controls to verify everything is working. After a few up/down cycles to bleed the lines, everything worked as expected. I still need to fashion some sort of box to which I'll mount my engine controls and the trim tab switches.

Bill

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/17/2003 3:00 PM
Hi Bill,

Looks really good. With the maiestro on the job it is not at all surprising that they work just like they're supposed to.

Jeez, if your concerned with getting some weight on the port side to offset the kicker with your modest weight, I've gotta be in serious trouble with my more than ample mass. My only hope is that the tabs will overcome overwhelming odds. heh heh

Hmmm, box for your engine controls and trim tab switches.
Controls for the main engine? Or do you have an electric kicker w/remote.

Mark


From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/20/2003 1:28 PM
Question for the house...

Regarding the trim tab controls - where do you all have them mounted? Initially, I planned on mounting them like Mike (near the control box), but after sitting out in the boat for a bit, that seems a bit awkward given my control box location.

Given that I've got an almost bare dash (thanks to the nifty all-in-one Yamaha tach/trim angle/oil/water temp/trip meter/hour meter/everything-but-the-kitchen-sink gauge), I was thinking of mounting it in the dash, directly behind the wheel, and next to the Yamaha gauge - snapped a photo with the gasket stuck on for reference here.

I'm guessing that I'll use the trim tab controls quite a bit, and as such, this location seems to be very convenient - it's just a short reach from the wheel, where my hands usually reside while under way. While I'm guessing this space is usually reserved for gauges, I can only think of two more I would ever want - a battery meter and fuel flow meter. There would still be pleny of room for both.

Any words of wisdom before I cut the hole?

Bill

From: Chuck S Sent: 2/20/2003 4:09 PM
The intuitive joystick trim tab control works best on top of the dashboard. Tap it left and the boat will tilt left, tap it forward and the bow goes down. You're steering with the left hand, so position the joystick comfortably to the right. Could even mount near the throttles.

The toggles will work, just not as easily for many folks.

-- Chuck

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/20/2003 6:56 PM
Hi Bill,

I just went out and looked at my CD. You have the nifty single gauge unit on your dash whereas I have from left to right, Tach, Trim/Tilt, Hr meter, and Volt meter, I have just enough room to mount the toggle switch for the trim tabs to the right of the Volt meter. Perfect, easy to reach with max convenience. So my toggle switch will be in the upper right corner of the panel right where your Yamaha gauge resides now. Fortunately, I have "just" enough room left on the top right of the panel for the switch.

As you said you have a ton of room to mount any other gauges to the left of the Toggle switch if you mount it next to the Yamaha gauge.

Mark



From: Swanny Sent: 2/20/2003 8:41 PM
I see where you have the gasket. Make sure you can get to the switches without bending around the steering wheel. If not, then I'd consider putting them under the multi-gauge on the right. I had a joystick on a previous boat, worked fine, easy to use. I have dual rockers on this boat. I decided to give them a try (they came from the factory mounted). I got used to them in about 30 minutes just fine. So, either way should be fine.

Steve

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/21/2003 12:04 AM
Ditto, I just looked at the pic of Da Nags post #5 on the other thread and I agree with Steve. The steering wheel would awkward to work around and the flat spot under the Yamaha gauge would be ideal, giving unfettered access to the toggle switch.

From: danthetrimtabman Sent: 2/21/2003 7:53 AM
Hello Group.

This is my first post so I hope I do it right.

First let me say what a GREAT group you have going. What a wealth of information that is posted to this club. I wish all of my customers were as wonderful to deal with as the CD owners that have contacted me.

Switch Placement; Looking at the photo you posted there seems to be room on the rounded area to the left of the wheel. From the angle in the photo, it does look like the wheel would be in the way to comfortably work the switches. Generally, when I do an installation, if there is room I install the switch somewhere in front of the throttle. That way you can adjust tabs and speed with the same hand. If space doesn't allow for that, then I go for the left of the wheel and you adjust tabs with the left hand and the throttle with the right.

Words of Wisdom: This coming from the school of hard knocks; Make sure ALL the wires are (way) clear from the back side of the area where you are going to mount the switch. You would be suprised how quickly a hole saw can cut through a wire loom.

Sales Pitch: If you have any questions about my trim tabs or trim tabs in general, let me know. I would be happy to clear up any questions that are out there. The prices that have been mentioned in this discussion are correct. If the trim tabs that I list on Ebay are not a size that will work on your boat contact me and we can get the right tab for your application.

BTW: I will be going to the "Lake of the Ozarks" this weekend with some friends. Maybe we can chop a hole through the ice and do some fishing. I need to figure out how to get invited during the summertime.

Dan


From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/21/2003 8:32 AM
Hey Dan,

Welcome to the group - you and the other guy (forget his name) have been great to work with during this installation.

RE getting invited to one of our gatherings - we are a very exclusive group, and there will need to be a vote. Of course, if you brought a set of trim tabs for all the attending members, you just might sway some of those on the board.

However, here's an inside tip - most of our board members are easily swayed. Just bring some beer - none of the cheap stuff - and I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms...

Bill

From: Chuck S Sent: 2/21/2003 12:03 PM
I saw an ad for a wireless switch designed to mount in the center hub of a steering wheel. I believe this was in an off-road 4x4 magazine, but the idea for trim tabs is pretty intriguing.

This had 4 buttons in a square pattern.

Would use no dash space and the buttons would always be convenient.

-- Chuck

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/21/2003 6:17 PM
I went back and looked at Les's setup on Dusty's original 22 CD and the Trim Tab switch was mounted to the left of the steering wheel. It was actually mounted on the flat surface below the contour but you have that occupied already. but it would as Dan suggested sure go above it on that side.
Might ask Dusty how he liked it there.

Mark

From: Sawdust Sent: 2/21/2003 7:22 PM
Mark,

I asked Dusty and he said they worked great in that location -- he always drinks with his right hand --

You sure missed a fun session with Greg and family -- so nice to put a face on an email address. Great folks! Expected that, they're Alaskans!!

You will really like the tabs, guaranteed. Makes it a different boat in any kind of chop, or when wind is on one side or the other, or someone moves, or, or... but they don't work too well on ice!!

Payton is gone? What the heck is left?

Dusty

From: Mike Sent: 2/21/2003 8:39 PM
Don't fall for it, Mark. I got a pretty good hunch that Captain Lampman does not drink while driving!

Bill - I haven't forgotten the picture, just been too frazzled to get out to the boat to snap it. I like the box you picked for the control. Round for a joystick is perfect. You ought to place it with some easily removable double sticky stuff and see how you like the various spots.

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/21/2003 9:31 PM
Dusty,

Les says your ambidextrous and are able to use with hand with equal dexterity.

I'm sure I'll like the tabs. Frustrating waiting out the weather so I can start playing with the boat. Guess I'll have to pull the hydrofoil off the 90 non and fill the holes.

Yep, I know I missed a great get-together but my day will come.

Oh, almost forgot, "Payton is gone. What the heck is left?" Don't fret young fella, What we have left is the first sign that Sund is pulling the strings instead of Wally and that is promising. Payton had to be traded! His leaving is a fresh start. Too bad we had to include Mason but 3 small forwards are too many. Check the score on tonights game for example.

Mike,

Am I really supposed to take what Dusty says with a jaundiced eye? I'm sure he was talking about "High Tea" on his yachet!

Mark

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/21/2003 9:35 PM
Here's the story on the box for the trim tab controls - looks like it's going to work out great.

After taking in all the advice here, and spending some more time sitting at the helm, I've decided against mounting the switch on the dash. Mike mentioned in a note somewhere how handy it was having the switches next to the throttle, and that seems to be a natural place to put them. The box configuration I came up with is easy and cheap, and if I don't like it, I can relocate the switch to the dash with nothing lost other than some time.

Mike gave me the idea - he mentioned he had his mounted in an outlet box with a blank cover. I took the switch down to Home Depot, and after spending a bunch of time looking at different boxes and cover plates, I found an ideal combination.

As it turns out, a 4" round, all weather (sealed plastic) junction box with a blank cover plate works perfectly. I drilled a 2.5" hole in the blank cover plate, and here's the cool part - the hole pattern on the TrimMaster toggle switches lines up exactly with the existing four holes in the cover plate and junction box. You can see all the pieces in this picture, and an assembled front and side view as well.

I also had to drill out a 1" hole the back of the junction box - there was a molded threaded fitting that protruded into the junction box, and would have hit the back of the trim tab switch. With it gone, the fit is perfect - about 1/2" clearance behind the switch.

Materials - about $5. Time to fabricate - 5 minutes on the drill press with a hole saw.

And, it even looks half-way decent...

Bill

From: Sawdust Sent: 2/22/2003 9:05 AM
Yup, the old guy was just sniffin' glue. He doesn't drink and drive boats. Bottle of water usually in the holder. Of course, sitting in the cockpit with the hook down might be tempting!

Mark, that was a Sonics game to end all Sonics games. Total control of that one, and they had a statement to make.

Sure has to be frustrating when you can't get the boat in the water, but you guys make up for it when things open up -- and you have the best fishing/cruising areas anywhere in the world!!!!! Twinge of jealousy, uh huh.

Dusty

From: Sawdust Sent: 2/22/2003 9:07 AM
Good job, Da Nag Bill,

That looks great. will inspect at Oly - I hope.

Duster

From: Sundown Sent: 2/22/2003 10:57 AM
Bill,
Good idea and nice job. Would you mind posting a picture after you have it mounted? I am certainly inclined to go your way with mine. Thanks.
Larry

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 2/22/2003 1:28 PM
Just finished mounting the switch, it worked out really well. It's a very natural drop of your hand to the switches, and the round junction box makes for a "hand-friendly" control - no sharp edges. I popped out the wire feed hole on the starboard side of the junction box, and ran the wire inside some of that plastic wire wrap to prevent abrasion.

As Mike suggested, they are mounted upside down since they are facing forward. This makes operation very intuituve - the bow follows the movement of the switches.

Here's a couple of pics of the finished control installation (front view -- side view).

Bill

From: Swanny Sent: 2/22/2003 2:11 PM
Very nice Bill, quite inventive too. I like those kinds of installations that make use of ordinary off the shelf items. Good job.

Steve

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 2/23/2003 2:10 PM
Bill,

Finished installation looks great! I feel like I'm way ahead of the game. All I have to do is look at your pictures and I know exactly what mine is going to look like when done. Can't wait.

Spring is coming, days are getting longer and warmer.

Yep Dusty, the summers are nice up here, especially the 24 hours of daylight, just doesn't last long enough. Everything is a trade-off tho and helps keep things interesting.

Mark


From: Mike Sent: 2/24/2003 8:20 PM

Cool, Bill. I like the round box, and the color you found, too. Just like it was made for it. You're gonna love them tabs. The need for the things on Da Nag is something I noticed when we were up at Sequim Bay. You always seemed ready to tip over backwards when running at speed. The trim tabs is a lot healthier choice than gaining weight.

Now then, on to the windlass and Wallas!

Mike

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 3/5/2003 9:18 PM
Man - add me to the folks who rate trim tabs as numero uno on the option list.

Took Da Nag to the reservoir to test the new setup - batteries moved between the tanks, new trim tabs, and removed half the sand up front. I'm down to about 75 lbs. of sand in the v-berth locker, which could probably go as well.

It's a huge improvement - I can get the nose down at relatively low speeds, and can actually trim the engine up at cruising speed. It's amazing how much more efficient you can make things by tweaking the tabs and trim, without touching the throttle. As others have mentioned, in some instances, I was picking up 3-4 knots and up to 300 RPM without touching the throttle.

The only surprise - nobody warned me about this - response to tab changes are much more pronounced as speed goes up. This makes perfect sense, but while adjusting for list at about 25 knots, things got cock-eyed in a hurry. I quickly discovered that "little bitty taps" on the controls were the ticket at higher speeds. Anything below 18 or so, and things weren't quite so sensitive.

Thanks to all for the advice. The control location is ideal next to throttle - as Mike mentioned, it's nice to have engine trim and tab angle controls close to each other, as they're closely related, and seem to be used together frequently.

Bill

From: Mike Sent: 3/5/2003 9:29 PM
Aha! I knew you were speed reading these posts! There are at least a half dozen mentions of the need for speed on the button push and release, including a remark about it being more pronounced at higher MPH's.

Sounds like you came to the same conclusion as the rest of us. Good for you, and I'm glad you like 'em. Did you have some doubts in the first minute or so of running with them?

Now then, get the rest of that sand out of the bow. It ain't natural, you don't need it, and you cannot afford the gas it will take to tow it to Olympia. (Who can, these days!?!)

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 3/5/2003 9:46 PM
I remembered the posts about sensitive tab control - just missed the remark about how much more pronounced it was at high speed.

While initially checking things out, I never got above 16-18 knots - on my setup, I can be pretty judiciuos with the tabs controls at this speed, so I assumed the sensitivity issue wasn't going to be as big a deal for me. Wasn't until I got to the higher speeds where I was so rudely surprised...

As to doubts - yes, I did have a brief moment where I thought something had gone horribly wrong with the tab installation. I slowly powered up, and the boat dove like a seal to starboard - scared the hell out of me. I then realized - doh! - left one of them big old orange bouys I like so much hanging off my rear rail. Guess what happens when one of those babys trys to dig in to the water...

From: 2nd Byte Sent: 3/6/2003 12:05 AM
Glad you're happy with the trim tabs. I recall at least a couple of cautions on the "quick" response at higher speeds. I guess though, like a lot of other things, you never really know the feeling until you've personally been there.
Great job Bill, on every aspect of your trim tab installation.

I should be able to start on my tabs and other projects before long if the weather cooperates.

Mark

From: MichaelOnTheClaraMae Sent: 8/25/2003 9:44 AM
From: <NOBR>therevdr</NOBR> (Original Message) Sent: 8/22/2003 4:13 PM
I am installing TRIM MASTER trom tabs to my 2003 22' C-Dory Cruiser (after reading all the good things about trim tabs on this site)....any suggestions about working around the gas tanks (besided "no smoking!!") as the hydro-arms and tubing are joined after coming through the freeboard???
Thanks,
therevdr

From: MichaelOnTheClaraMae Sent: 8/25/2003 9:46 AM
From: DaNag Sent: 8/22/2003 7:55 PM
There's a long thread you might want to read that starts here. I documented my Trim Master install, including some photos - and how I dealt with the tanks.

Short answer: go to the hardware store, get shorter brass nipples, and install elbows.

Bill

From: MichaelOnTheClaraMae Sent: 8/25/2003 9:48 AM
Hey Bruce, any luck or have you jumped into your trim tab installation yet?

Michael