Resins - A Little Off Topic

[Swee Pea]

I have a camper that has a hand held shower. It is a small enclosure with a cassette toilet. It has a built in shower pan/drain, but the walls are luan covered with vinyl (I think) and not waterproof. There is a shower curtain that goes around which further reduces the shower area. I wish that the enclosure was made of plastic or fiberglass, but there are odd angles and molding one would be expensive.

I found this product www.neken.co.uk which are plastic 12"x12" wall tiles, that when applied properly, will create a shower surround. Exactly what I want. The roblem is that there is no distributor in the U.S. and cost becomes outrageous with shipping and VAT tax. I guess I could use a high grade of sheet vinyl flooring and glue it to the wall. But this Neken system is perfect. I have looked all over the Internet for vinyl coatings to be glued up, but all are developed for overseas use and are located in Europe.

My question is - is it possible to use a clear resin to coat what I already have and create a watertight surface for the occassional showers that I will be taking in the camper? Something that will not crack and can be applied by brush or roller? Something that can be easily cleaned and not wear off. I don't want to use fiberglass cloth and such. It also needs to be able to flex some, because it is in a camper and also light weight.

I don't know much about resins and such coatings, so I need the Reader's Digest version of possibilities.

I know that many of you Brats can lead me in the right direction OR head me off at the pass.

Thanks in advance.

John
Swee Pea

[Sneaks]

Wouldn't the same thing be accomplished by using ordinary 12 X 12 vinyl flooring pieces and a good flexible adhesive? What do the Brits bring to the party that's different?

Don

[Swee Pea]

Neken tiles are plastic with an insulating backing that helps to prevent condensation and is always warm to the touch. Evidently they are specifically designed for "Bathrooms, Shower Cubicles, Utility Rooms, Kitchens, Mobile Homes Boats and Caravans - don't you love the way they talk!

After watching the video, it appears that there is a grout groove manufactured where the tiles fit together. Regular 12"x12" vinyl floor tiles butt together and are not sealed at the grout line.

For some reason, maybe building codes or whatever, this type of system seems to be popular in Europe. (just like tankless water heaters that are beginning to catch on in the States)

It is a moot point. At a rate of $2.50 US to the English Pound (which I don't know if is correct) it would cost over $500 for about 50-60 square feet, after shipping and VAT tax. That's not happening!! A side note. They are charging 28 Pounds as a VAT tax. Beware of our legislators pushing a VAT tax in the U.S.!!!!!!!!!

I was just wondering if there is a resin or clear epoxie that will do the same thing with what I already have. A piece of quality sheet vinyl installed on the wall may be the way to go.

Just putting the question out there.

John
Swee Pea

[Sneaks]

Interesting. OK, now my next question - why are you charged the VAT? I've bought many items in Britain and Germany, and just had a major electronic repair done in Germany - never paid VAT though I did pay Customs for the cost of repair. Over the years I've paid customs on occasion but never a VAT.

Good luck on your quest for a substitute, btw

Don

[thataway]

The only thing I can think of which fits your bill is one of the truck bed liners. These insullate, are tough, flexable, and can be applied to any surface with good adherence. These are available in spray on, roll on and brush on. "Durabak" is currently used on many boats. It is used on external and internal decks, walls, heads and showers. This is available in smooth and non skid (not a rough surface) and holds up very well. I have seen excellent applications with a roller. It is available in many colors. Cost is $89 to $150 a gallon and available in many places.
No VAT yet!

[Swee Pea]

I don't know why a VAT tax. I "placed an order" to find out the cost of the items. Shipping was 77 Pounds (money, not weight) and VAT tax was 27 or 28 Pounds. I gave my address in the good ole USA.

I did find this product at www.andek.com:

"CLEARCOAT 44 is a single component, moisture cure, aliphatic clear urethane coating." [whatever that is] "It produces a tough, glossy, hard wearing and chemically resistant surface. CLEARCOAT 44 may be used alone as a clear, tough gloss coat over masonry, concrete, vinyl, wood, or other approved substrates....CLEARCOAT 44 was tested for conformance to industrial standards to meet the approval of the sealant waterproofing and restoration institute (SWR Institute). This product was validated using third party verification to certify that it performed above industry standards. CLEARCOAT 44 is also used over bright metal surfaces to maintain their appearance and prevent tarnishing".

"Outstanding Features:

Produces a fully adhered, seamless, high density, clear urethane coating
Protects your investment by increasing the effective service life of the substrate
Reduces dusting and is salt & chemical resistant
May be applied by brush, roller or airless spray
Resists penetration by oils, fuels and process fluids
Sets quickly and develops strength rapidly
Scrubbable and easy to clean
Provides long term resistance to wear and abrasion
Ideal for horizontal, pitched and vertical surfaces
Remains tough and flexible at low temperatures
Single component formula means no measuring or mixing
Warrantied for 5 years"

Sounds interesting. I am going to call them tomorrow and find out more about this and other products they have.

John
Swee Pea

[gljjr]

I think Bob has the right idea. Truck bed liner would be a good way to go. But I think I would also use an initial coat of epoxy, and also use fiberglass tape on the corners to make sure you get a good seal. Then put the truck bed liner over that. Basically, epoxy seal the floor, walls, and ceiling and then pretty it up with the paint.

[Westfield 11]

If you are serious about using resin, Tap Plastics carry a water clear Polyester resin designed for surfboards. I am using their stuff on my Campbell restoration and am VERY happy with the performance.

[thataway]

I think that you will have adhesion problems putting a polyester resin over the shower/floor molding which apparently is some vinly.

There have been a number of boat decks done without using extra glass tape, but it would not be a bad idea to do that. If the shower is tight, I don't think that the tape would be necessary. If you do taping, there will be sanding, and you will have to be sure that there is no compatability problem with the epoxy resin.

If you want a clear application over the existing enclosure--maybe the Clear coat 44 would be an answer. You have to watch for bubbles, and blow them out, put on multiple coats etc. I suspect that the bedliner which is opaque and available in many colors, and can be non skid for the bottom would be a better bet. Both are urethane base. Your call.

[Swee Pea]

I talked to a rep from www.andek.com regarding the Clearcoat 44 product. He said that this is the product that I want for my particular application. You roll or brush it on - and he said thin - and it will create an absolutely watertight seal. It dries from the moisture in the air - go figure - so the product in the container has no real shelf life once you open it. It will be no good from the can within a couple of days. At $78 a gallon, it better work! It dries clear, glossy, and has a 5 year warranty.

Bob, the Durabak process seems interesting as well.

I am still thinking this through. My wife says she can smell the rubber burning

John
Swee Pea

[thataway]

Thin might be fine if there was no vibration or flexing. For your application I would want a reasonable thickness.

What else do you think a "representative" would say?

[Swee Pea]

Thanks for the responses so far. I talked with the head chemist at Andek regarding Clearcoat 44 and he was worried that the solvents in the product would adversley affect the wallboard. So that product is out.

I went to Home Depot and looked at FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Panels). This would be a total remodeling job of which I do not want to undertake. It would be nice if when the camper was built, the FRP were used. The construction of the bathroom in the Freedom is so well done, that I do not want to disturb anything, just for my pecularalities. I am sure that if the fine folks at Northstar felt the need for a waterproof area, they would have included it. The four panels required to build it in the first place would have cost at retail about $150. I would have gladly paid this if I had the option, but since I bought off the dealer lot, I was not able to do so.

The chemist at Andek said that I should be looking for a polyurea (of which the Durabak is). I am awaiting a chip of the Durabak in white smooth and will see what it looks like. It would be a matter of cleaning the surface (it is already spotless anyway) and rolling it on. This would be the best solution.

Searching other sites for a polyurea, it seems that they are sprayed on (except for the Durabak). I will keep looking.

I am having some peeling of paint off the inside of the hull in at the gunnels of my CDory. A couple of years ago, the factory sent me some replacement paint, one can of white and one of the grey speckle. Have yet to use it. It is probably no good anymore. If I go with the Durabak, I can coat these areas as well. I just hope it will fill the need of the camper.

If you can think of anything else, please post.

Thanks
John
Swee Pea

[thataway]

Yes, you could coat the inside of the C Dory with the Durabak. But I probably would do the entire inside--quite a job--not just spot touch up. See how the paint looks when you shake it up. It may still be OK, if stirred/shaken enough.

[Swee Pea]

Well, I got a sample of Durabak Smooth (no rubber particles for traction) from the manufacturer. This is the way I am going to go. It is a smooth shiny finish that will completely waterproof the shower area. It comes in colors, but I think I will stick with white. I will report back when it is done. (I am probably not going to tackle the job right away)

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

John
Swee Pea

[Swee Pea]

Well, I continued to search for what would be the "best" choice to waterproof my camper shower area. As most of you know, camper walls are constructed of luan covered with a thin vinyl or wallpaper like subsititue. After putting the project on the back burner for awhile, a new search happened upon this product: Clear Shield Liquid Laminate. http://www.clearstarcorp.com It is used in the art world and by sign makers to coat and make waterproof various surfaces.

"ClearShield® uses state-of-the-art resins and ultraviolet inhibitors that protect the substrate, ink, and the clear coating itself. These non-yellowing clear coatings have excellent exterior durability and are highly flexible. Use ClearShield® on most substrates, including waterproof canvas, vinyl, banners, fiberglass, wood, metal, plastic, and paper. You can apply it over solvent-based inks and most water-based paint systems."

The website is very informative and calls to the company were filled with information and suggestions. The first suggestion was to test the surface for adhesion and compatability (ruin the inks or cause separation of the vinyl from the board). They told me to send a piece of material and they would test and evaluate it for free. I chose to test myself.

Since the area I was going to work with was so small, I really did not want to buy a whole bunch. I was pleasantly surprised when their customer service said that they would send a quart sample (actually enough for me to do the project) for $12.95 including shipping. I ordered the Clear Shield Original in Semi-Gloss.

I tested an inconspicious place. Testing revealed total compatability. No lifting, The stuff is waterbased and from the container, it looks like milk. No thinning. It can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed. I rolled and used a sponge brush applicator. Once on, it is clear and once dried, you don't even know it is on. The wallpaper/vinyl looks untouched, except now it's waterproof. One to two coats is recommended. I am going to use two. It can be reapplied as often as you want without much prep - it must be clean and dry. Cleanup is with soap and water. It does have a paint like smell, so use ventilation.

If you look at their website, they have videos of application. It is used on vinyl exterior "banners" to extend the life of the lettering. If it is good enough to brave the wind, snow, sleet, and hail, flap in the breeze without cracking or peeling, and will not yellow, it should be fine for my shower. Anyway, my shower is only a handheld for use in short spurts. And after shower, we wipe down the walls. I had stuff left over, so I coated the walls around the sink and stove - backsplash.

Thought you might want to know; you might have use for it somewhere. So far, so good.

John
Swee Pea