Looking for advice/suggestions

[Castaway]

I have been reading on this forum for awhile, signed up a couple of days ago and and decided to come out of my shell and post, having the temerity to ask for something right out of the gate.

By way of background, a year or so ago, our little family moved onto one one of the islands, sometimes referred to as the "Discovery Islands" scattered between Vancouver Island and the British Columbia mainland. We are not part of the "Gulf Islands" about 100 miles south, but in a group lies mainly east and north of Campbell River, stretching from there to Desolation Sound in the east, including - among many - Quadra, Cortes, Maurelle, Sonora, the Redondas and the Thurlow Islands.

We are water or floatplane access only. Off the grid. No ferries. So just about everyone has a boat. We have a small open boat and it's less than ideal for doing anything other than local fishing, setting prawn traps, etc. Time for something more substantial perhaps.

Observation tells me that the boat of choice hereabouts seems to be welded aluminum in the 20-25 foot range, with a range of power configurations - no clear winner there. We see inboards, sterndrives, outboards, twin/single, gas diesel, the lot. The majority of these boats are made locally. There seems to be no shortage of decent aluminum boat builders on Vancouver Island. New, most sell for well in excess of $100k and used, not much less.

For some time I was convinced that I would have to save my pennies and pony up for one of these fine tin tubs, if I really wanted to fit in. Recently, I have become somewhat less convinced, particularly since poking around on this site.

I was led here by seeing a 16-foot C-Dory offered for sale on craigslist. I looked around a bit more and found this site and, in the last day or so, corresponded with a member just across the border in Washington who had advertised his 16-foot for sale. He told me he had a deal just about in the bag and perhaps that was good news; otherwise I might have done something impetuous by closing on it myself. On more mature consideration of the matter, I think further research/reflection is called for. As part of that, I read the informative thread about boat-buying considerations that is on this forum.

So all of the foregoing gets me to - in a roundabout way - asking for the thoughts/insights, etc. that anyone here might have to offer for someone in my situation. To that end, I'll try to add just a touch more detail to what that situation entails.

First of all, while we live in a somewhat isolated, water-access only location, it can probably be said that we do not absolutely NEED a boat. We can hire or beg transportation to get to Campbell River where we do a major provisioning every couple of months. That's how we have managed thus far. When the weather is fair, we can take our little runabout to one of the nearby islands that have stores - about 25 minutes travel time, one way. These stores offer less selection and higher prices than Campbell River, but they are OK to fill in between major provisioning runs. If the weather turns while we visit these other islands or en route, well.... In the winter, the weather can get a bit challenging. The SE wind is the one to watch, and to go just about anywhere from our location we have to navigate water where the SE has a fair fetch and the seas can get rough. On some winter days here, even the beefiest of the aluminum crew boats stay home. But those days are the exception.

The welded aluminum boats seem to enjoy popularity for a few reasons. One is that you can pull into a rocky shoreline and not worry much about doing damage. Another is that they seem pretty much impervious to the elements. I have never seen a cover on one. No one worries about what UV rays will do to the finish. You can run over a deadhead in one and probably not go to the bottom. Overall, the basic hull seems to be low maintenance.

Maintenance might be an issue in that any boat we acquire will be used year round. It will always be on the water. We have our own dock and I suppose we could keep the boat covered most of the time when not in use. But from my reading here, a lot of C-Dory owners trailer their boats, and they spend a fair amount of time in nice cozy garages. Any boat we acquire won't enjoy that luxury.

My initial inclination was to buy something like a 16-foot vessel with a small cabin that would allow us to get to the next island in most weather without getting soaked by spray as we do now. Then I read the comments by a forum member who had his 16-footer for sale, explaining why he decided to move up to a 19-footer. From what I see here, it seems as though many have made the 16-19-22 foot progression. Maybe I should spare myself and just start at 22 if I go C-Dory. In some ways, it might be overkill. But maybe not. It might provide a further margin of safety in poor weather. We would probably use a 22 differently than a 16. We are in the middle of a boater's/cruiser's paradise here and more boat would likely lead us to go further afield and enjoy more of what's out there. Might not be all bad.

So that's where we are at. Should we join the C-Dory fraternity/sorority (lest I appear sexist), or should I acquiesce and buy a big aluminum crew boat from Daigle Welding in Campbell River?

Comments, please!

[Papillon]

I won't give you the "All Boats are a Comprimise" line.

I will just point out the Pros and Cons of C-Dory as I look at it from your point of view.

Pros: Dry, Solid, Warm, Dry ....did I say Dry twice...and Warm...there I go repeating myself...22...saves money in the trading up process bigtime.

Cons:.......hum........hum.........Bottom Paint required if it stays in a wet slip...but a boat lift would solve that problem.........hum...well that about covers it.

[matt_unique]

The closest I have been to your area was the wreck of the Cape Breton off Vancouver Island. It was beautiful country!

You definitely need a fully enclosed pilot house for protection from the elements. I too favored an aluminum hull but could find none in the 25-28' range on the East coast for less than $180K. There are very few commercial boats out this way that are anything other than aluminum. That being said, the C-Dory offered the design, feature, and price compromise I was looking for. For your needs I would not consider anything smaller than the C-22.

Good luck with your search.

[Doryman]

If I read your post correctly, you expect to often run your boat onto a rocky shore (i.e., there are not always docks where you are going)? If so, that is a strong recommendation for a beer can boat.

Warren

[geebee2]

Hi Castaway,

I've got the 19 and have been using her out of Kitamat for the last 3 seasons. It's a good choice for my use. The 22 would be a better choice for your situation.
The 'Port Boathouse' in Port Alberni has a new 22' Cruiser in stock.

Good luck in your search.

Glen

[Castaway]

My gratitude to those who have replied so far. This is the kind of thoughtful response I had hoped for.

Doryman, I probably did not really clarify about rocky landings. What I have noticed here is that a lot of loggers, for example, use aluminum crew boats, which they do not worry about bumping up against rocky shores when dropping people or supplies. The glass boat owners avoid that. I can avoid it too. As Papillon mentioned, without taking me to task, I recognize the "compromise" element. I have no particular need to go landing my boat where there is no dock or some kind of gentle landing. It would be nice to have a boat in respect of which you don't even have to think about it, but I think I can manage the compromise.

geebee2, Good to hear about your experience. I have been in the Kitimat area and it's nice to know your C-Dory suits you there.

And matt, I am kinda' coming round to the same sort of compromise you mention.

[Tom on Icarus]

Welcome Castaway.
I have lived in the area and boated here for over 35 years. For my 2 cents worth.....I have owned several boats, some bigger and some smaller than the 22 Cruiser that we currently own. We have had the C.Dory for five years now and I can say I have never felt safer when caught in some not so friendly weather. You know how easily one can get caught in questionable weather around here....so it has happened and will continue to happen. All that said.....a boat is only as safe as the operator and his /her knowledge and respect for the elements.
Good luck with your choice.
By the way....which island do you live on?

Cheers
Tom

[Captains Cat]

Welcome Castaway! You probably won't find much advice or suggestions here.... Only 4 in the first 3 hours or so....

You are living in a beautiful part of the country, I really envy you. I think you will find a 22 just about right for you, I had one for a few years and it was very special.

I know you'll find many wonderful friends here as we have and, if you can manage to make it to a CBGT (guess?), you'll get to meet them in person. Keep in touch and let us know what you decide on!

Charlie

[Sam Walker]

Hi Castaway, first welcome to the site. This site has a wealth of experiences. I expect that you will get many more responses to your question.

Second, I will qualify my response to say that I have wanted a C-Dory for about 7 years now. I just have not had the $$, time, and opportunity line up yet. I have been watching this site almost daily since its inception. My point of view is based upon the discussions here that have taken place over that time. (BTW, thanks to Bill and Tyboo Mike for keeping it running)

The C-Dory's are excellent boats. They are versatile, easy to maintain, Fairly fast in calm conditions, and fairly inexpensive to obtain.

You did not mention how large your family is. A 16 is very much a two is company, three's a crowd boat. With two fair sized people aboard and normal running equipment and tools, etc. there is not a lot of extra carrying capacity.

You mentioned wrankling rides for provisioning. How many pounds are reflected in the provisioning trips and how much does the hired boat cost? My point here is there may be some cost savings that could justify getting a larger boat.

From the descriptions, both yours and others, the conditions can get sloppy up your way quickly. If I have read some accounts correctly, it can change by the minute while you are out there. If I were running those kinds of conditions, my thought would be bigger is better. The Alaskan and PNW contingent can better address operating conditions with the different boat sizes. There is almost unanimous agreement that no matter the boat size, the skipper and crew will quit long before these boats do.

Depending on the size of your family and how much inside vs. outside space you need, the minimum that would look at would be a 22 Cruiser or 22 Angler. The older Anglers can be had for the price of a newer 16. Yes, it is only 6 feet of length, but once you set foot on each, you will see the 22 is way more boat than the 6 feet would lead you to believe. Going further with this argument, I would maintain that if you intend to carry a lot of people and/or weight, you might be better off w/ a 25. I think that I would not consider a 19 for your application.

Yes, the compromise word has to come into play. It is a two part process. You have decide where your price point is then pick the best boat within that range. The second part is then you have to be able to accept the limitations over the long term. I think that somewhere along the way, everyone here has decided on buying something with a small price point and ultimately sold it early because they could not live with the limitations caused by the price point compromise. By the sound of your latter posts, you are already starting to tally up the compromise sheet.

Provided that your family is not greater than 4, I think that you would be happy w/ a 22 Cruiser. Give serious consideration to the 22 Angler if you cannot quite afford the Cruiser.

One more thing. Beware of a low price on an older C-Dory. If the motor is original equipment or is a non E-Tec two stroke, serious consideration and investigation should be done or a plan for modern repower should enter into your equation. Your boat is not going to be just recreational, it will be your lifeline. You do not want something that is constantly challenging you with repairs. This is especially true in your Outback Region. With a repower in the mix, the great deal may not be even a good deal by the time that you get done.

Whew, that was long winded. And I did not even get into the single vs. twins debate.

Good luck, happy hunting, and keep us posted on your progress.

[Stimpys Dad]

CASTAWAY,

WE LIVE FURTHER NORTH OF YOU AT COFFMAN COVE ON THE EAST SIDE OF PRINCE OF WALES ISLAND.
WE HAVE A 1982 ANGLER MODEL 22 FOOT AND WE HAVE LOVED THIS BOAT EVER SINCE WE BOUGHT IT USED IN 1990.
IN TERMS OF GETTING THE MOST BOAT FOR YOUR DOLLARS YOU WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND ANY OTHER BOAT THAT WILL DO SO MANY THINGS WELL. IN A CHOP YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SLOW DOWN AND THAT IS JUST A FUNCTION OF THE FLAT DORY HULL.
WE BEACH OURS SOME TIMES AND IN 19 YEARS I HAVE HAD TO REPLACE ONE CHINE PIECE ON THE HULL BOTTOM.

FOR CARRYING SUPPLIES AND STAYING DRY AND WARM THIS LITTLE OLD BOAT IS JUST FINE.

IT ALSO HAS A POT PULLER WHICH KEEPS US IN CRAB AND SHRIMP.

IT IS A GOODFISHING PLATFORM AND FISHES WELL. IN THE FALL, WEATHER PERMITING, IT SAFELY HAULS US AND FRESH VENISON .

THE BOAT PAYS FOR ITS OPERATING EXPENSES MANY TIMES OVER IN SUBSISTENCE FOOD THAT IS ALLOWS US TO GATHER AWAY FROM CROWDS, ROAD HUNTERS AND FOLKS THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND LIVING OFF OF THE WATER AND REMOTE LAND LOCATIONS

WE HAVE YAMAHA 4 STROKE OUTBOARDS, A 100 HP MAIN AND A 9.9 THRUSTER AUXULIARY.

ONE ON THE BEAUTIFUL THINGS ABOUT THE C-DORY IS THE ECONOMY OF OPERATION. WE USE THE 9.9 THRUSTER MOST OF THE TIME UNLESS WE ARE RUNNING FROM BAD SEAS AND BAD WEATHER.

WE HEAT OUR CABIN WITH A DICKINSON STOVE.

LOOK AT THE USED BOATS ON THIS SITE MOST OF THEM HAVE HAD LOTS OF TLC AND THEY GENERALLY COME VERY WELL EQUIPED WITH ELECTRONICS.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE PLEASE E-MAIL US secdc@msn.com

REGARDS, DOUG AND BETTY CRUICKSHANK

[Jack in Alaska]

30 yrs. ago when I was searching for my 1st boat purchase in
Alaska I asked a friend, who was very savvy about boats, to come along to look at one.
While we were looking it over he said something that has stuck with me and is absolutely correct...............
Choose the largest boat that you think you will possibly need and then buy the next one bigger. In the long run it has saved a lot of heart ache and money.
I owned a 1983 Classic 22' for 26 yrs. and absolutely loved that boat and ran it for many many miles in all kinds of bad water. This year we sold it to our son and purchased a 26' ProAngler C-Dory. This will be my last one.

Good luck in your choice and I hope it is a C-Dory.

Jack in Alaska

[Nunya]

Castaway,
I've owned tin boats and fiberglass boats over the years and there are pro's and con's to each which you have already mentioned. One thing I will say about a C-Dory or any fiberglass boat is they are definately warmer. There is a little more upkeep involved with fiberglass, potting screw holes, thru bolts, waxing, repairing harbor rash, etc. but all can be done yourself. I've really enjoy mine and like the layout a lot. It's very economical considering it's a 25' boat and very seaworthy. Been in some water I shouldn't have been and boat handled it fine.
Good luck on your choice.

[Castaway]

Good morning, all.

We are just starting our day here. Thought I'd have a quick look at this site to see if any more replies came in since yesterday. And - mirabile dictu - I am greeted by a veritable cornucopia of sage advice and insightful questions.

To answer a few of the questions, the family consists of my wife and I and our young son. So we don't routinely need much passenger-carrying capacity. But a bit of extra capacity will help when it comes to making to occasional run over to Quadra Island to pick up guests who have taken the ferry across from Campbell River and need a ride the rest of the way.

As for our provisioning trips. We pay $160 to put our pickup truck on a landing craft that drops us on Quadra and picks us up on Quadra at day's end. We drive across Quadra and take the ferry to Campbell River. We board the landing craft 5 miles north of home and then sail south again to get to Quadra. So, on a round trip, 10 miles (or roughly half of the total distance to be covered) is something we pay for, but necessary only because our shoreline does not offer a suitable spot to drive on board.

Ferry for our truck and the three of us to C. River and back to Quadra is about $40. So, not including gas for the truck, the trip cost is about $200. Of course, there are all the "hidden" costs of the trip, such as fish and chips for lunch on the wharf at Campbell River; take-out Chinese food for dinner once we get home; a plate of calamari and a pint of beer at the Heriot Bay Inn while waiting for the landing craft to take us home, etc.

As for the load we carry back, it can be described as about a thousand bucks worth of stuff from the Superstore. I recognize that at today's prices, a thousand dollars worth of groceries will fit in the glove compartment of most vehicles. But we pack it loosely and it expands to fill about 10 banana and apple boxes. Sometimes the load will include a chainsaw I have had serviced in town, a few tools, and anything my wife has decided she needs for her vegetable garden - eg. more fencing to keep the deer out. If the cougars and wolves on the island would only do their job, we could go fenceless. It seems their tastes have shifted to the local domestic fowl, dogs and cats. I saw the biggest buck I have seen on this island in 20 years just yesterday. He was checking out our solar panels and he behaved like cougars and wolves only live in zoos.

Sam, you can see from the next preceding paragraph that I am easily distracted and don't know when to stop writing. No need to apologize for being long-winding. Economy of language is not my forte. By comparison, your post was succinct, almost terse

I'll say more later in response to those who have been gracious enough to offer their comments so far, but right now it's time to head up the 10 miles of lousy gravel road to Surge Narrows (that reference should identify what island we are on). That's "downtown" here. The mail plane comes in this morning. The weather is fine, so the plane will make it today to Canada's only floating post office. It's also market day at Surge, so we can't miss that! There will also be a yoga class at Surge Narrows Elementary. I might just give that a miss and, if the wife partakes, I'll just hang around the government dock and see if any C-Dory comes along.

Thank you all again. The welcome here is about enough to drive one to buy a C-Dory. I think I'd feel positively churlish in should I respond otherwise.

[Larry K]

Castaway

OK, it’s time to weigh in my 2 cents.

You and I have some things in common. We own a cottage on a small island (no cougars and wolves though) that can be reached only by boat. We leave our condo (that has a dock) and run the 20 miles to the island. We also must bring all our provisions as the island has no stores.

Most of our islanders have some type of boat, wooden, tin cans, welded aluminum or steel hulls and some have what we call $hit boats (just a beat-up old boat that floats ). Half are open and half enclosed but most islanders only travel less than a half mile to a dock on the main land.

Let talk about why I choose a C-Dory22 Cruiser

1. Price - much less than aluminum or Steel hull.

2. Enclosed – It works well in all weather condition rain or shine, hot or cold. We run from mid April though November (April days are in the 40’s/50’s and sill may snow, November days are windy and rough (Gales of November) and in the summer we open all windows and have a great breeze. I do have a heater but very rarely use it as some times it creates condensation on the windows. If I know that I will be using it in cold weather I may put an electric heater on the night before and it warm the cabin up nice for the run the next day.

3. Economical to run – about 4 to 4.5 miles to the gallon at 16 to 20 miles per hour depending on the current in the river.

4. Carrying capacity – The 10 or so box’s of food would fit mostly up in the V-bunk and/or in the well in back. I have carried lumber (2”x8”x16’), furniture (dinning table and 6 chairs) and list could go on.

5. Reliability – I have twin Honda 40hp with separate gas tanks and batteries so if one dies I have the other. This has happened (small air leak in one of the gas hose from packing to much crap above the tank) and that is another story.

One thing that we had done (at the time it was an option) is to have C-Dory put on in a bench in place of the stove and sink for more carrying capacity.

I, along with the rest of the c-brats, may be prejudiced, but, as we all have said before, it may be the best boat for the bucks.

The con in buying a c-dory is you may not get a pint of beer at the Heriot Bay Inn while waiting for the landing craft

[Doryman]

Castaway -- As a young man I entertained visions (more accurately: delusions) of homesteading in Alaska, so I find this discussion fascinating. Would love to hear more about your life up there, should you care to share.

I, and a few other Brats, will be up in your neck of the woods mid-August.

Warren