Mounting a kicker

surfbird · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Mounting a kicker

Hi.

I am attempting to mount a Yamaha 8 HT on the port side of my 22 using a mini-jacker.
The boat has Lenco standard tabs which are positioned in a way that prevents the mini-jacker plate to fit flush against the transom. The only options I can think of are 1) cut out a section of the bottom middle area of the mini-jacker to make room for the trim tab cylinder or 2) add a strip of 1/2 or 3/4 inch thick StarBoard between transom and mini-jacker. The latter would be preferable because it would give me a little more space between lower unit of the kicker and the trim tab plate, but I would like to some feedback about using StarBoard in this way.
Any reason not to pick option #2?

Happy Boating,

Jim

thataway · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject:

Option #2 sounds good--gets the kicker away from the hull. We use set back brackets (Garlick)--but the mini jacker has its advantages. Just use adequate bolts and washers--and seal the holes well with epoxy, as well as using sealant.

surfbird · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject:

Thank you Bob!

SeaSpray · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject:

HI Jim,

How did the kicker install go? I am considering also looking at installing a kicker and would love to see some pictures.

Here are some questions for our thinkers on this site.
A less than 10hp kicker is not going to plane a CD22. So, what does more HP do for you? If the displacement speed of the CD22 is less than 6 knots will more HP let you make headway onto a 7 knot current?

I would assume that more HP would let you make headway into a stronger wind. The other question is how much difference does the high trust motors make vs the standard? Can you get an appropriate prop for a Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury that will let you use the full HP of the motor?

Has anyone had to run into difficult conditions with their kicker and how did it work?

Thanks,
Steve

SeaSpray · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject:

How important is it to have a kicker in the event the main dies?

I don't recall seeing anyone post about how they were able to avoid significant cost or inconvenience due to having a kicker.

New 4 stroke motors are very reliable, and how often do we boat where there is no help and you could not anchor. If you are going to remote places or off-shore fishing then I can see the need.

Are there any stories of a kicker saving the day?

Steve

20dauntless · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject:

Steve, I agree! We had a kicker on that Whaler for years and never used it due to an engine failure. Really, the only time we ever used it was a few times in Lake Union to test it out and make sure it worked. Over the years we managed to break the solid aluminum kicker mount (the Yamaha part, not the bracket the kicker sat on) several times just driving the boat. Each time it cost a few hundred dollars to fix. We sold the kicker for $1000 and I just got an estimate to remove the controls and bracket...$1200! So, for us it was a very expensive and unnecessary exercise. Now I keep a BoatUS membership and a fair number of spare parts aboard in case I need to fix anything.

Unless you need to troll down to a speed you can't get with your main, or you are in very remote waters, I don't see much of a need for a kicker. Of course, if it makes you feel comfortable and enjoy the boat more, that is probably reason enough to install it.

Jazzmanic · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject:

We had a situation a couple of years ago where I'm glad we did have the kicker. The power tilt/trim on our main engine went haywire on the way to Bellingham, about a 45 minute boat ride from Twin Bridges. 2/3 of the way there, the engine was going up and down on its own and then just stopped with the engine really high up in the water. We called the boat mechanic at the marina and he said bring it on back. We started the kicker up and 1 1/2 later at 5 knots we made it back safely. It was nice to know we had a 2nd engine as back-up that we could count on in a pinch. The kicker handled like a champ and performed the task we bought it for, besides trolling for fishing that is! Wink

Sure, we could have waited for a tow boat to bail us out but that takes additional time and money. As it turned out, we still made it to the Bellinham gathering in time for dinner. For us and the way we use the boat, we're glad we have the kicker hanging on the transom.

As for making headway against wind and current, the conditions in Bellingham Bay were worsening as the wind started to pick up. We were still able to make headway because we were probably in 10-15 knot winds and 1-2 foot chop but I did begin to wonder if we would be able to make headway if the conditions had worsened. If the high thrust Suzuki 9.9hp with power trim was available when we bought the boat, I would definitely have taken that option, knowing what I know now.

jimcinfra · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject:

Last fall we were on the Mississippi River when our main engine failed (carbs started flooding gas). We were able to start our kicker (9.9 Suzuki) and make it to shore. We were upstream from our launch point so we stayed out overnite then used the kicker going down stream to get home. Glad to have a "get home" motor.

flapbreaker · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject:

Here's some pictures from my boat (which I don't have anymore). I had the honda 8 classic mounted on the starboard side. Never had a problem with the trim tabs.

SeaSpray · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks for those kicker experiences!

I have carried a 4hp 2 cyc to use on my dinghy and have always thought that I could use it if needed as a kicker. I know it would only be useful for down wind/current or maybe provide a little bit of steerage control if I really needed it.

The situation with the CD22 is that you need 8 to 9 hp to get home in moderate conditions as Peter was in but that is too big a motor for the size of dinghy you can easily carry on a CD22.

I like the idea of being able to get back myself if the main quits or avoiding being pushed into the shore or other boats in more serious situations. There is always the anchor but there are also places where the anchor will not help until the boat is on-shore or on the rocks.

Any other stories out there?

Steve

thataway · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject:

I agree that more than 10 hp is not of much more help as a kicker in any of these boats. I spent thousands of hours under power with 5 to 10 hp in approx 25 foot sailboats--and always found this "adequate". Yes, you do have decreased speed into wind and chop. Yes, a power prop, or "Big foot" with larger prop, lower pitched will give better driving power than an "egg beater" smaller higher speed prop.

Perhaps my exposure is more than most, but here are some instances where I have used auxillary power where the main propulsion failed:
1. 45 years ago an inboard had primary failure--and I used a 4 hp to bring a 25 foot boat "home"--slowly but we got there. I had a bolt on 2x4 bracket on the swim step.

2. spun out prop, and not able to change out the prop in the conditions--8 hp brought the 22 foot Grady White home.

3. Hit the lower unit on a submerged rock with an RIB (high speed, no chart plotter, and I misjudged where the rock, even though I had reviewed the chart before I started the trip)--it was about 15 miles back to the large vessel with a 3.5 hp we did this in 3 hours.

4. lost transmission on several diesel boats--in each case a small outboard on a skiff or RIB got the boat to a safe area. one case was a 4.5 hp outboard on a 10 foot dinghy lashed along side--got the 62 foot boat up to 2.5 knots--allowed steerage way, and allowed us to avoid danger until I inflated a larger boat and got a 25 hp outboard in play.

5. lost fuel pressure (air in line). Fuel filter plugged x 3 at various times,
lost steering 3 times in the past. I used sails, jury rigged steering etc--but outboards in each case would have "saved the day". Once was bad fuel near home in my 18 footer (I carry a 3.5 hp kicker)--another was recently when I had water in the fuel of the Tom Cat--second engine got me home at displacement speed. I suspect if I thought about it, there would be other times, I have used some auxilary or emergency power.

I look at the kicker as not only getting the boat back, but also getting the boat to safety--or avoiding danger. I grew up in an era, with no "Sea Tow"--and was taught to depend on my own resources.

Tortuga · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject:

I mounted a 6 hp Tohatsu and have thus far found it to be adequate. It'll push the boat at 5 knots in a stiff breeze (with no current present). But, keep in mind that the boat will only achieve hull speed regardless of current -- so the 5 knots is speed over water; not speed over ground.

A larger motor will not give you faster speed over ground -- but in the face of a really stiff wind and significant chop the larger HP will give you better ability to maintain hull speed.

I have to say I am very happy with the compromise -- I can push the boat all day & night at 5 knots -- and I can put the motor on the soft bottom inflatable and plane quite easily. I was actually able to pull my boys on a tube behind the raft -- though not on a plane (see below).

Plus -- 55 pounds is a whole lot lighter than 89 pounds (both on the transom and on my back).

Matt

416rigby · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject:

Had the main quit on a previous boat and the kicker got us home...turned out to be a fuel delivery problem. Before that, had the steering cable break on my Whaler and I had to disconnect the end at the engine and try to hold on to 90 horses and steer while my teenage daughter worked the throttle. Heck, my arms were numb when we got back...about 5 miles. I decided right then and there that there would be two engines on any boat I owned from then on.
Rick

eNORMous · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject:

I became an expert at shearing off lower end units and props on the Gulf Coast of FL; and, on one occasion a 6 1/2 month old brand new EverRude 90hp had a jug head cavitate (from bad gas purchased at a marina).

Under two conditions I had no kicker and I was only offshore 7 miles near Anclote key and could have made it back with a kicker. I decided then I'd start running boats with no less than two engines - always.

Since I have the 2008 150 Suzuki 4-stroke (a fantastic engine), it still doesn't mean I won't knock off another lower end unit or spin a prop. Just knowing I have the kicker to get back is great for me.

I've been told (since I intend to do quite abit of fishing) that the kicker (9.9hp 4-stroke Suzuki) is ideal for trolling; and, supposedly helps to increase the life of the 150 if I plan to spend significant amounts of time trolling (as opposed to trolling w/ the 150). I'm not totally convinced on this, but hey - the 9.9hp is far less expensive than the 150. Mr. Green

Additionally, even though I am now also carrying an additional Xantex 400 for emergencies (in case my stereo system sucks up all my battery life while I entertain myself with the stereo system - hopefully this will not happen) - the kicker will start (manually) if I suck the battery cells dry. Cry

I've come to believe in the same motto for boating as for driving a car/truck. I won't drive a vehicle without a spare tire, and I won't take off in a boat without a kicker (or two engines minimum).

m2cw

Papillon · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:25 am Post subject:

Speaking of Kicker Mounts.....

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Story to follow after I have reached terms with the supplier.

More photos in my photo album.

Sirfice to say...Nassin's don't swim worth a dam.