Powering a 25'...

localboy · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Powering a 25'...

I've seen/read every engine combo; from dual 90s, 135s, 150s, 175, and 200s on '25 C-Dorys. There are currenlty four mentioned here for sale. One has a Honda 135, one a Honda 150 and one a Suzuki 200 and one a Suzuki 175. Since I'm in the market I need some real world opinons, experiences etc.

Mahalo....

arniehuff · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: outboards

GO HONDA. YOU CAN NOT BEAT THEM

lOOSE NUT

aRNOLD HUFF

starcrafttom · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject:

I have ridden in several with the 135 or the 150 Honda. I think that they are under powered after you get the boat all loaded up. As long as the weight is the same I would always go for the biggest engine I can. Its not that I want to go faster all the time, it's that 2% of the time that I need to go faster I want the ability to do so. Also I think or believe ( other will disagree) that a 135 hp engine running at 90% throttle is going to burn as much fuel and work harder then a 200hp engine at 75% throttle and run at the same speed .
The e-tec 200 is lighter then the 135 Honda. So if its the same weight why not get it. And here's a scenario where the 200 is better. 2 to 3 ft chop on the sound and you want to run in because a storm is coming or you told her you would be home from fishing on time this time, either way your life is in danger. For a faster speed and a non- back shaking ride you lower the bow all the way into the water and go near full throttle. The 135 slows way down and does not have the power to punch Thur with that much bow down. Now your down to 15 knots or less. with a 200 you bow down and floor it and you can still punch Thur with out pounding and stay above 20 knots. When I went on a test drive in a Venture 26 w/200 e-tec this is exactly what we did. When Sark had his 22 with a 115 Yamaha he could bow down in the chop and just run away from me if he needed to. I had to bow up to match speed but got pounded or bow down the trim and got slowed down. Horse power is like fire power, you can never have a enough when you need it and you can't go get more if you left it at home.

JamesTXSD · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

We have the Honda 135 on our CD-25. It works for our cruising style (we're generally not in a big hurry... cruise 6 knots or 16). If you do any higher elevation cruising, then more would definitely be better. When we ordered our boat, I considered twin 90s, but the Honda 90s were not EFI then. The factory recommended the 135 when we ordered, and we've been pleased with it.

I am a fan of Honda, having owned cars, motorcycles, other outboards, a generator, and even a snowblower all powered by Honda. Having said that, I think the Suzuki motors are first rate, as well. Realistically, I think they'll all be in a similar fuel burn rate. If you have authorized service for one nearby that you prefer, I think that would factor into the decision.

If you want to cruise faster than 20 knots, bigger is going to be better. Unlike my buddy Tom (who has driven our boat), I'm more about the comfort than the speed. When we first got our boat, lightly loaded and a smooth bottom, I could get it up to 30 knots. Not so anymore. With about 800 hours on the motor, ablative bottom paint, and loaded for cruising, we can get maybe 23 knots in smooth conditions... but the fuel burn per hour really goes up. If I run around 16-17 knots, we generally see 2.5 mpg or better. Slow down to 6 knots and it goes up to 5-6 mpg.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your decision.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

Wefings · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject:

I am a 175 Suzuki fan , extra oomph when you need it .Big prop=big bite on the water .Best power to weight ratio in a 4 stroke.But as Ill always say ,they are all pretty darn good . Personal preference and access to service are important.
Marc

20dauntless · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject:

If I were buying a new 25 I'd probably go with twin Honda 90 EFI's. You get tons of alternator output (88 amps!) and the Honda dealer network which, at least up here, is pretty good. If you want twins you could also go with the new Suzuki 90's which would be about 80 pounds lighter than the Honda's but you'd give up 34 amps of alternator output.

For a single the Suzuki 175 looks pretty good. Less weight than most 150's and more power. The downside is 44 amps of alternator output, but if that's adequate for your use, and it probably is, then you are just fine.

The E-Tec is a good engine, but when I ran a 150 on a Cape Cruiser 26 it seemed noisier than my Honda 90 on my 22. See if you can try a boat with each. If you run at slow speeds a lot, the E-Tec will return better mileage. Perhaps the most important thing is good dealer service and availability. There are factory authoirized shops at the marina where I keep my boat for Yamaha, Honda, and Evinrude. Check what is good and available nearby, and go from there.

**Honda lists alternator output and the number of amps available for charging. Suzuki just lists alternator output, which I assume is more than what is available for charging. If anyone knows differently, let me know.

localboy · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject:

stevej · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject:

Went from a Yamaha 115 2-stroke to a 200 e-tec on my 25’ last year
I have been so impressed with the 200 e-tec. Was only able to log a little over 25 hours on it but it is like owning a new boat.
Made a few runs out halibut fishing last season and my fuel usage for an average trip (90 miles) dropped by over 10 gallons. I can now power up the back side of a swell and stay on it with three people, full load of fuel, gear and ice. It will come on plane in a couple of seconds.
Going against the swell and current in conditions that limit me to around 12 to 14 mph I was getting 2.3 to 2.6 mpg, up from 1.8 to 2.2 with the Yamaha. With the swell and current I can run 19 to 24 mph (conditions permitting of course) and get 3 mpg. The Yamaha never saw 3 mpg above 6 mph.
I did manage to get out on Yaquina bay for a couple hours last weekend, mess around with the motor trim and effect on speed and fuel consumption. The sweet spot is around 3800- 4200 rpm. 3800 rpm with 12% trim for 21 mph and a solid 3 mpg on flat water (some head current and slime growth on the bottom). At full throttle, 78% trim and a small amount of bow down with the trim tabs applied 5750 rpm, 35 mph, the boat was completely stable with no scary tendencies.
Oil usage is averaging 80:1 with XD-100
About 80 lbs lighter than the Suzuki 175 (wet weight)
No more feeling underpowered in the ocean
Tuna trolling speed 7 mph at 6.5 mpg
4 mph little over 14 mpg
noise level has been greatly reduced throughout the rpm range
Color kinda matches the boat (better than black)
I-Command gauges and NEMA 2000 buss system are great

Really wanted to keep my transom as light as possible as I feel this keeps with the original design concept of the boat. The 200 e-tech is only about 40 lbs heaver than my Yamaha.
Nothing against the 130 -150 hp 4-stroke crowd but I get about the same level of economy/mpg, don’t have to push the motor as hard for the same speed and if I want to get from point A to B a bit quicker the option is there.

Like I said very happy with my e-tec

stevej

20dauntless · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject:

One more thing, and you probably already know this, but these boats are not designed to be run fast nor do they need a ton of power to do so. I've had 7 people on the 22 and the single 90 was more than adequate. I could easily cruise at 16-17 knots at 4500-4600 rpm. The fastest I've ever run the boat for any length of time is 19-20 knots from Wallace Island to Roche Harbor on smooth water. Once a chop picks up, you'll slow down to be comfortable. Granted, this speed is higher on a 25, but I wouldn't worry about top end on a C-Dory.

It would help to know how you expect to use the boat. How many people will be aboard? How much gear? If you are using the boat in the San Juans there are enough places to duck into that you really shouldn't have to run far for cover and if you keep an eye on the weather you really shouldn't have a problem. Now, if you're fishing offshore...

thataway · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject:

I have the Honda 130, which is a smaller engine than the Honda 135/150. If I was repowering, I would go to the 175. I don't see any reason for the 200 on this boat.

With the 130 the boat runs easily at 17 knots and I get about 2.5 when on a plane (measured with calibrated flow meter). I would think that the Yahama 115 would be way to small--I have one of those on my 18 foot CC.

We ran in 4 to 6 foot seas down wind very nicely last summer for about 30 miles, --in full storm conditions--the boat was safe and there was no danger.

It might be nice to go faster at some times in calm water--but the 130 gives enough power (we are loaded for 2 months, complete with dinghy generator, kicker freezer etc) at sea level. As you go up to higher elevations, more HP would be desirable.

Going into a true 3 foot chop, the C Dory 25 would be very uncomfortable at 20 knots--no matter how much one put the bow down--I find that even in Deep "V" vessels larger that a real 3 foot chop is a chalange. I think that running into 3 foot chop is hard on the boat as well as the passangers. Many people tend to over estimate the height of waves.

I agree, the C Dory is made to run at lower speeds--if you want a fast boat in chop--get something else. The Suzuki 175 would be my first choice if I was powering a new boat.

jennykatz · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: c-25 engines

The Honda uses a 2.4 litre eng where the suzuki uses a 2.9 litre eng. I don't really know about the e-teks but have heard about them some good some bad . The suzi has the bigger gearcase runs a bigger prop 16 in vs 14 and 3/4 for the honda .I've driven the c-25 with suzi 150 which is the same displacement as the 175 minus the variable valve timing so really the 175 does not produce that last 25 hp until past 4500rpm or so .If there is a suzuki dealer nearby i would go with that . I loved my suzuki 90 2litre Great engine

localboy · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject:

Doryman · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject:

When I bought my Tom Cat I originally wanted Honda 150s because I had had a Honda on my previous non-CD boat and liked it, good rep, etc. Master Marine (where I bought the Tom Cat) is not a Honda dealer, so I decided to go with Yamaha, which they recommended and gave me a 6-year warranty for. However, if I had the chance to do it over again I would buy Suzuki. The Yamaha is a good motor, and probably stronger than the equivalent Honda, but I have heard so many good things about the Suzuki I would go with that.

Another thing I have noticed is that different motors are dominant in different areas. We are in Florida now, working our way back to Washington. I was amazed at how many Yamahas there are down here. I would say the #2 is probably a close race between Suzuki and Mercury. On the other hand, back home in WA I would say Honda is dominant, with Suzuki in #2 and Yamaha trailing. On the third hand, if you go north into Canada you will see Yamaha becoming dominant again. I was faced with a situation where I needed a local mechanic, Master Marine could not send a mechanic to Anacortes in the necessary time frame, and Cap Sante Marine would only work on Honda, and could not help me. I was SOL but fortunately managed to fix the problem myself. So in that case having Yamaha worked against me.

Hope these rambling thoughts give you something useful to think about.

Warren

eNORMous · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:09 am Post subject:

I don't know. Antibody already had the 2008 150hp Suzuki EFI four banger rigged. I've never owned a Suzuki - not even the motorcycle. I picked up a 2008 9.9hp Suzuki EFI four banger as the kicker/troller. I have to say - I'm very impressed with this engine. For me, I'm a freak on maintenance. If it had the 150 Honda, I'd probably have been happy with it or the Yamaha, or whatever (although, I've never been a big fan of Mercs - don't know why - just heard horror stories about them when I used to run EverRude outboards).

I find the 150hp Suz is very adequate for the style of cruising/fishing I do. I don't barefoot much any more, so I'm not looking for that big hole shot. The 150hp Suz gets on plane very fast, and planes out nicely w/ the Beckman's. Of course, I know the gang at Old Lyme Marina mounted the 150hp at the exact location on the transom - which helps immensely for planing and minimizing dolphin.

Service for me is key - know thy serviceman, bring a bottle of wine, bottle of booze or case of your finest malt beverage each time you religously service your engine and you'll be a happy camper.

doc · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: CD25 power

We have the Suzuki 140. We don't normally travel very fast but we have had a few times when more power would have been very welcome. If we were to repower, we would go with at least a 175. Two CD25 owners I know up here have repowered with 200s and are pleased.