C-Dory NMMA Certification

[quarnet]

John-
C-Dory's NMMA Certification has lapsed; they are no longer NMMA
Certified. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Robert E. Newsome
Director, Engineering Standards
National Marine Manufacturers Association
312.946.6275 t
312.946.0388 f
www.nmma.org/certification
Together, making boating the #1 choice in recreation
-----Original Message-----
From: Alice Brown
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:38 PM
To: Robert Newsome
Subject: FW: You have a new question from the NMMA website!



-----Original Message-----
From: jejakobowski@yahoo.com [mailto:jejakobowski@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:22 PM
To: Alice Brown
Subject: You have a new question from the NMMA website!

The following person visited the Contact Us page of the NMMA website and
wanted to contact you.

Please try to answer this email to the visitor as soon as possible. Here
is the person's information:

*************************************************************

[BaseCampAnne]

What does this mean in plain English and what are the implications? Why might C-Dory let this lapse?
thx,
Anne Cox

[Larry H]

Anne,

Short answer, the certified boatbuilder meets the standards and builds boats that meet the standards made by NMMA. These standards cover hull, steering, fuel, electrical, and other parts and systems on recreational boats.

Here is a link to the NMMA certification web page, by reading the links, you can see what the certification means, and what it costs the manufacturer.

NMMA LINK

[thataway]

Very interesting.

When I purchased the Tom Cat in June 2006, that boat was not up to ABYC standards (or NMEA certified). I was told that certification was going to occur within a month. It took almost a year--and C Dory was certified a year ago. Now we are told that C Dory is no longer NMEA certified.

This means short cuts to me. I am very dissapointed!

Why? Only C Dory can tell us, but I suspect it is economics--as Larry states, there are some expenses with the certification.

[Dora~Jean]

Bob, you're saying "NMEA", the post is about "NMMA." Is that what you meant?

[journey on]

Well, after reading the topic "Sea Pro shut Down" it may be a long time until C-Dory gets NMMA certified. We should pray that they stay profitable, and still continue to build good boats. Everybody is gonna hurt.

I don't know where the NMMA label is on Journey On, but it's still a good boat.

Boris

[Larry H]

If a boat is NMMA certified, the NMMA logo should be shown on the capacity/horsepower plate usually located near the helm or on the inside of the transom.

[jlastofka]

I tried to do some reading online regarding NMMA certification. I didn't find much yet. It looks like it could very well be a fairly useless rubber stamp program that requires the manufacturer to give a bunch of money to a consulting organization in order to become certified. This ends up being a marketing tool and may not be good for much else. I saw a $200 base, plus $150 per hour for 'inspection'. I bet it costs a couple thousand dollars for each boat model that gets certified, plus I wonder how much to belong to the organization in the first place.

As an engineer, I've been involved in ISO certification at a few companies and it's a fairly worthless rubber stamp program. It doesn't do what it pretends to do, and it ends up being a very large fee that companies have to pay to participate in certain markets.

On one hand, it would be comforting to have the boat certified to a standard. On the other hand, if the boat is built well enough to meet the standard, but the manufacturer just didn't want to pay the consulting organization, so what?

It looks like some of the "over 30 items" the standard covers are things like flotation, steering, and labeling. I'd guess most of us couldn't care less about the labeling, and we can see the steering installation and judge it for ourselves. C-Dory buys the same hydraulic steering system as practically every other manufacturer and it's right there in front of us to see. Probably another certification item is compliance with Coast Guard lighting regulations. Big deal.....

Here's a quote from a manufacturer who recently achieved certification:

The NMMA Certification program covers more than 30 categories of standards, which vary by boat type and size and may include: fuel systems; ventilation; passenger and weight capacity; horsepower capacity; flotation; electrical systems; navigation lights; warning label placement and guidelines; and steering systems.

I wonder how many NMMA certification "categories" are actually important to any of us? This would mean things we can't judge for ourselves. Does anyone have any actual knowledge of the process? I'm speculating based on limited research. I'd be interested to hear from someone with ACTUAL documentd knowledge.

It looks like until about 10 years ago the NMMA wasn't very powerful and could only ask manufacturers to voluntarily certify things. Now they've become more powerful and they require their members to certify and they charge for it. Looks like a money grabbing consulting deal to me.

Somebody prove me wrong. I'd be glad to read some more facts. (I'd prefer it to not be self-serving statements from the NMMA.) I just didn't find any more. Also, aren't there some legally required Coast Guard standards that US manufacturers have to comply with? Maybe that stops at 20 ft. I forget.

Jeff

[matt_unique]

While I think there is room for improvement in C-Dory quality right now, you make an interesting point Jeff.

I have come across the same in the education/training profession. There are many organizations to "certify" your courses as approved by the particular organization. Without mentioning the name, I thoroughly researched one such organization and it would have done nothing for the quality of our courses. It would have cost several thousand dollars for this label.

[rogerbum]

In my opinion, C-Dory should just:
1) hire Thataway Bob
2) Build the boats the way he thinks they should be built and
3) Put a "Thataway Bob Certified" label on the capacity horsepower plate.

Now THAT would mean something to me...

[matt_unique]

[Dora~Jean]

Rogerbum wrote:

[jlastofka]

Okay, Bob, you've had enough retirement and boat cruising. Time to buy the company and get back to work, slacker....

Jeff

[C-Hawk]

I will have to agree with Jeff.
I have been in countless shops as a third party inspector and one of the first things I ask to see are the certified QC manuals.
You would be amazed how many times I've had to dust them off so I could read them.
Yes, these shop are certified AISC, ASME, ICBO (now ICC), AWWA, SSPC, API-- the list goes on. I can go into any fabrication facility and find that they do NOT follow their QC manuals as certified.
That's why I have a job
In order to get a contract, these shop are required to have some level of certification. They pay big bucks to have someone come in and audit them every few years.
Seems that upper management are the only ones to know about the certs, cause the shop sure doesn't know

On the other hand, I have been in some small shops where the owner may have 1 or 2 helpers and find better workmanship and quality than in the larger shops. These guys don't have the shop certs and only get the small jobs, but I would much rather work with them because they still know that the reason they are working is due to their skills and workmanship.

[dotnmarty]

Some years ago, when I first fell in love with C-Dory, there was a used 22 footer for sale in Pensacola. I lived a couple thousand miles from there and couldn't afford it anyway, but I called about it. I still remember talking to the very patient person on the other end of the line. Whenever I am reminded that I could have owned a Thataway Bob original and passed it up, I kick myself.