Bilge Pump Operation

MOOSE · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:38 am Post subject: Bilge Pump Operation

The MOOSE has the Rule Platinum 1100 bilge pump located in a sump on the starboard side under the cabin bulkhead. We have noticed that even with the sump flooded, the pump will discharge only a short burst when switched from “Off” to “On/Auto”. But by continuing to toggle the switch, the sump and cockpit floor can, more or less, be evacuated. Am I missing something here, or is something other than me on the fritz? I’ll appreciate any insight you may provide.
Thanks,
Al

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:18 am Post subject:

I had the same problems with the Rule on Anna Leigh. In fact I have a second pump at the transom. Those pumps are supposed to cycle on on a low speed and if the circuitry detects an amperage draw because it IS pumping water it kicks into full speed. But if it only pumps out a good healthy blast and then leaves more water it isn't doing what it is supposed to do. What really irratated me was the constant cycling of the pumps every ten minutes or so when it checked for water. When on, and if there was enough water where they should have stayed on and just pumped it all out, they did the same thing you are experiencing. I had them both changed out with float type pumps with a three way switch on the helm. Off/On/or On with with the float controlling.

If a bilge pump has to be toggled to evacuate water there is definitly something wrong. If there is that much water in there I want a pump that will pump until it is all gone.

True Story · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject:

I couldn't figure this one out either on the True Story. I could get the pump to work every once in a while if there was a lot of water in the cockpit. I also took exception to having everyone stand on the starboard side to completely drain the cockpit. So, I installed a redundant pump aft as David has and I feel better. I suppose my next step is to replace the factory pump if in fact, I'm not missing something.

I did have a question for you mechanically inclined persons. Three times now, I have noticed water on the cabin floor and haven't been able to determine the source. I have been able to rule out the water tank and I have noticed two similar conditions present. One, the weather was crappy (wind and rain) and two, I was fishing. So, water is either spilling over the bilge pump sump and into the cabin when leaning over the starboard gunnel or, and here comes my question...... the water is coming in through the pump discharge hose when leaning over the gunnel. Is this possible? If it is, I could probably install a new, longer discharge hose and configure a vertical bend in order to gain a few inches of freeboard if you will. Thanks in advance for your help. Tim

digger · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: Possibility

On Snoopy-C, my pump discharge would allow water in when rough water splashed against the discharge hole. I ran the discharge barb fitting up, and place a "U" fitting so that water would pump up above the discharge, through the "U" to go out. This helped, but still didn't drain the cockpit. I solved that by placing a primary pump between the tanks, near the drain hole. That solved the problem.

However, water in the cabin could come from another source.....leakage from the Wallas exhaust port, if it is in the vicinity of the level that the pump discharge level is. The corrugated exhaust pipe might be allowing water to come inside the cabin, if the port does not have the attaching fitting pointed upright. That is why I chose to put in a Wallas heater (1300) instead of the Wallas stove/heater. My exhaust is up through the roof, instead of through the side of the hull. Ron

Anita Marie · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject:

I have had the same problem in rough water. My problem is the bilge sump is not completly empty and the pounding allows the remaining water to slosh over and into the cabin. I also have added a second pump aft to help this problem.

Moxieabs · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:18 pm Post subject:

I had water leaking around the drain plug in the bulkhead below the door to the cabin. The flange was not properly sealed to the bulkhead and any time the water in the cockpit sloshed against the plug a little dribble entered the cockpit. Took a lot of time to find this one and not much to fix it.

MOOSE · Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject:

Well, I just got off the phone with a technical representative from Rule, so here’s the straight scoop on bilge pumps. Essentially what he told me was that the Rule 1100 Platinum pumps do not like air (pardon the anthropocentrism). So they’ll kick on, sense some entrained air around the impeller, which is interpreted as low resistance (i.e. – no water), and then they’ll shut off. As a replacement, he recommended their Rule Mate model, which is also a centrifugal, high capacity pump, but one with an internal float switch and circuitry which forces it to run for a longer period once activated, thereby evacuating any remaining water in the sump or any that flows back down the discharge tube. He recommended one of their three-position switches, either model 41, 43, or 45, to enable ‘off’, ‘manual’, or ‘automatic’ (float switch) operation. This sounds like what David on Anna Leigh has. Hmmm, seems like I just got a WM discount coupon…….
Al

True Story · Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks Moose for looking into the bilge pump problem. Always looking for a good reason to dump another $100 at WM. Thanks also to the rest of you for responding to the potential sources of my "cabin water". Tim

Otter-BelleHavenMarina · Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject:

Yep, I've had the same problem on occasion. Thanks for the research. Is the pump installed by C-Dory or the dealer? Would be nice to have the right pump from the beginning.

Mighty Bite · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:59 am Post subject:

Tim, water in the cabin seems to accumulate from a myriad of ways. I had water accumulating on the cabin floor in rainy weather and it was significant. What I found was a couple of very small "pinhole" size spots on the port side of the hull , under the dinette table, and just under where the rub rail is on the exterior of the side of the hull. In the rain water was coming thru these holes (seemingly just a trickle but it accumulated surprisingly fast), ran down the inside of the hull, pooling of course on the floor. Sikkaflex on those pinholes solved the problem. In my case, masking off the hull and rub rail and running a very fine bead of Sikkaflex or silicone along the top of the rub rail, though probably not necessary, would in order as well.

Mason C. Bailey · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:33 pm Post subject: Water on floor problem

This has been discussed in the past but I haven't seen it mentioned in this section. Another possibility causing the water on the floor, which happened to MacNaughty and others is from the chain and anchor rope locker area. In heavy seas on MacNaughty the water was entering into the locker via the water drain exit. But since the locker was not sealed properly, water was draining into the foamed in areas under the v-berths and eventually to the cabin floor. The factory resealed the locker and replaced the wet foam at no charge. This may not be your problem but it is the only leak source that I have had.

MacNaughty III

Pat Anderson · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject:

Greetings, Tim - coming at you from Snoqualmie today! There is another explanation for water in the cabin, it may not be your issue but was mine. I also thought the water in the center aisle in the cabin might be coming from the water tank or the bilge pump hose, but it turned out to be coming in the fitting from which I had removed the drain hose for the useless icebox that I removed. Once I plugged this fitting (glued a tire stem cap over the fitting inside) the problem was solved and Daydream is once again dry on the inside...if you took the icebox out and removed the drain hose, definitely check this out...

en_pissant · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:40 pm Post subject:

I had mystery water in my cabin as well. We had a rainstorm here in Kirkland a few months ago. I had my boat sitting out uncovered, and ended up with about two inches of water on the floor of the cabin. Yes, I know I'm a moron.

For about the next week, water would intermittently drain out of the front area under the v-berth, depending on the angle of the boat. My boat is an '87 so some of your guys with the new fancier boats might not have to be concerned about this. Smile

Anyway, just a suggestion. It was a little mysterious.

R-Matey · Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:07 am Post subject:

Regarding the water from unknown sources. Last Saturday we took the R-Matey down to the C-Dory plant in Kent because we had water in the cabin Sad

Not a lot but enough that it was aggravating. It appears that our problem was caused from leaking in the forward flotation compartment and from several screw holes on the stem guard located under the anchor locker. Joe picked up the boat today and we're very pleased with the service that we received. The folks at C-Dory are good and conscientious. They didn't hesitate to take care of our problem Very Happy

Ruth & Joe
R-Matey

flagold · Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:32 am Post subject:

For those to far away to run to the factory, I solved the problem the following way: got a tube package of JB Weld and mixed it, and a tube of marine sealant. Mixed the JB Weld and applied the full length of the guard pressing the weld into the seams on both sides, then sealed the screws. Once dried, came back with the sealant over that. I beach the boat a lot on all kinds of surfaces -- no problems.