Ranger Tug 21ec - My Observation!

BrentB · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:

I am curious about your cost of $65K for the boat. Please explain.

Shaun · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:

IdleUp,
As an owner of an 06 Ranger 21EC, I also disagree with all of your comments. The Rub N Tug has almost 320 hours on her hour meter, 7 trips to Catalina Island and a trip north to the Channel Islands under her belt. You said that you spent 45 minutes on the boat. I have used every system in that boat and I can say that I am happy to have every single one of them. With the addition of my new fridg I can stay on a mooring or anchored at the Island for days at a time only to leave for fresh food. Keep in mind that this a 21 foot boat and not this mainship that you are accustomed to. The beam of the boat is factored into its design to maximize the ratio of inside volume and its ability to pass through the water. To add beam and not length will cause the boat to be even slower and require even more engine to move at the same speeds. Displacement hulls have a specific hull speed at wich they will run with the greatest efficientcy. Without changing the hull design completely, an unrealistic amount of power is required to push past this speed barrier. A 50 or 75 horse motor does not suit this boat! This is the 21st century which is even more of a reason for people to slow down and relax and enjoy their time on a boat. In my multiple trips over to Catalina Island, which takes almost 5 hours, I have noticed 1 distinct difference from friends of mine that have faster boats, Fuel. On my last trip earlier this week It cost me $26 for the crossing and an hour long booze cruise that night. With fuel prices in the high 5's and low 6's at the fuel dock over there the last thing on my mind is a larger motor. As far as cooking and doing dishes in the cabin, please refer to my pictures. I am 6' 1" and weigh in at 240 lbs and find no problem getting in or out of the bed, cabin door or helm seat. After a little practice this boat is very maneuverable and after learning how to use the thrust of its motor one will discover that his boat does not need a bow thruster. This boat suits not only my desires in a boat but also my pocket book. I can afford to run this boat without breaking the bank. This boat definitely doesn't suit you but for those it does, we fall in love with it. My advice to you is to do a little more research the next time you feel like spending this kind of money. When you discover that this boat is not for you take the time you spent writing this post and use it to look deeper into the boat on the list.

Goater · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject:

Hello Everyone,
As someone who just did "tie-up" a deal on an R21ec (Thursday in Toronto; ya-baby!), I would like to offer my 2 cents on this. Idelup, I can identify with some of the things you said in your post. Some of that thinking came into mind during our process of determining if this boat was for us. The smaller cabin for example, ( we have 2 young daughters and a dog and are we all going to fit in there when it rains?) And the speed was a consideration, too. At the end of the deliberation, we concluded that this boat in essence is like no other that we have found. Its obvious merits outweigh the few (if any) shortcomings that I'm sure , in short order, will be forgotten. It's a 21 foot trailerable enclosed cabin cruiser with sleeping quarters, stove, head and tons of space for relaxing and fishing. And did I mention its 21 feet long? Here in this market, I know of nothing similar that is less 25 feet and costing twice as much and not too happy being trailered.
This is clearly not a boat for everyone, I suppose. But it is for us. Someone on an other posting said it right though; 'it is what it is and it's great'. That's the way we feel.
Anyway, that's my thoughts. We can hardly wait to next year!

Cheers

Gregg

Texas Steve · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: Hmmm...

Maybe it's a good thing there's more than one boat manufacturer.

If you can't appreciate the sheer economy of the R21-EC with regard to fuel consumption and space planning, keep looking. We appreciate our little tug more every time we take her out. Filled up for the first time yesterday since the 4th of July (only missed two weekends since then) and the bill was $38.00.

As for speed, either you enjoy the trip or you don't. We're looking forward to more extended trips this fall and winter in hopes of learning more about her capabilities. So far we've been substantially more impressed than disappointed.

Still... to each his own.

IdleUp · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:

JamesTXSD · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

Well, I guess you must have missed my question... twice.

What other boats made your consideration list?

Truly, I don't mean to come across rude, but you seem to have an agenda. You were going to "tie up" (I take that as: write the check and buy the boat), but now Ranger won't get your money because of all the "faults" you discovered?? Were there other boats at the show that you wouldn't buy? Any that made your cut? Many of us would be interested to hear what boat of a similar size, style, and less price you find fits your needs. Please, enlighten us.

IdleUp, methinks you didn't do any homework at all. Methinks you weren't going to buy the boat. Some people just like to talk about buying. We have a phrase for that in Texas: big hat, no cattle.

So, what other boats made your consideration list? Let me phrase it another way: is there any other boat out there that you considered besides the R-21? How 'bout this: Did you consider "tying up" any other boats at that boat show? I guess what I'm asking is: Were you able to find a 21 foot boat with a big cabin, large engine, planing hull, diesel inboard, inexpensive price, trailerable... that you DID "tie up"? If you didn't care for this boat (and why would you go there to "tie up"), what boat does meet your needs?

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: A thought...

Does anyone know of a good Bayliner dealer in Virginia? It sounds like it could be a solution.

TomRay · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:54 am Post subject:

marvin4239 · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:34 am Post subject:

Maybe he and It-Sea-Bit-C could go into business together modifing the 21. I envision rebuilding the hull from the waterline down into a 3 point hydo and perhaps slideouts on the cabin similiar to what RV's have. Under the motor cover could be and outboard well with a 300 Suzuki. To all those who own and are content with the 21 I got to tell you that is one fine looking vessel. One passed by my dock about a month ago and it took me hours to wipe the smile off my face.

matt_unique · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: R-21

I have nothing to add about the R-21 except that I was drawn to it every time I visited my Tomcat at the dealership. The lines are just awesome and if I could afford to own multiple boats I would have one of the Ranger Tugs. I would love to go for a cruise on one of those.

I'm curious about the prop you had on your trawlers that ran 8 knots in idle?!? That would be one hell of a party trying to dock! 8 knots is close to WOT on one of the 26' boats I run, at least in terms of my available throttle range on the console.

Clearly the R-21 is not for you. It was good for you to figure this out in advance. It would be tragic to buy a boat then discover you do not like it.

dotnmarty · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:01 am Post subject:

Well, I feel like I'm betraying my 16 footer, but, when I first saw that Ranger 21 that Les brought to Poulsbo a few years ago, I was smitten. While I will never have one because my car can't pull it, and I can't afford it anyway, I love it and am happy for those who have it.

drjohn71a · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:30 am Post subject:

I, too, fell in love with the lines and basic construction of the EC-21. I even like the older models!

However, in the final analysis, I just could not live with the restricted speed here on MidWestern lakes where we often have to outrun storms to find lee moorage, or the safety of the docks.

I love my TomCat 255 and actually spend most of my time on it cruising at 6-8 smph on autopilot... That is relaxing, with time to photograph, draw, daydream, and soak up the local sights, or enjoy a conversation.

I get 2.5-3 smiles per gallon at those speed on the TomCat, but have to run on a plane to keep the algae level down on the hull and the engines in shape. As such, it is a very swift kick in the pants to have to fill up those twin 75 gallon tanks at $5 per gallon down here!

Like Matt, if I could justify it, I'd have an EC-21 tied up right next to my TomCat.

I was sorry at first to hear of Idle Up's disappointment in the EC-21 upon his first test cruise, but most of his complaints about the cabin size and limited speed are pretty obvious, even at a distant perusal in photos, brochures, etc..

However, Idle Up, as you persist in foisting some form of "blame" upon the designers and manufacturer of the EC-21, or some form of engineering failure on their part, my compassion for your situation is fading.

The world of marine design has for centuries worked within the limits of the laws of physics and the laws of nature to the extent that any potential boat owner MUST choose between designs that are large, roomy, fast and expensive to operate and designes that are more sleek (hullwise), smaller inside, slower, and economical to operate.

You simply need to accept the laws of nature and the laws of physics and deal with the reality that one must CHOOSE the path, the craft, that most closely embodies his desires, instead of harping on those designers, manufacturers and users of models which fail to meet his wants.

Best of luck... and I'd beware of anybody offering you a craft with the exact features you are wanting all in one boat.

John

20dauntless · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:31 am Post subject:

Idleup,

Remember that diesels must be loaded correctly if you want them to last. If you put a 75 horsepower diesel in a R21, and only ran 8 knots, you'd significantly shorten its lifespan.

Seriously though, have you looked at the CD22? It sounds like the perfect boat for you...

rogerbum · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

To me, the R21 tug would be an ideal boat for crabbing/shrimping due to the large cockpit and sufficient space to keep 2 people dry in the cabin. I also see it as an awesome "picnic boat" - e.g. a great boat to cruise around with friends on a dry day or evening. My CD 22 doesn't have near the cockpit space of an R21 and boy there sure are times when I'd love to have that. Personally, I don't see the R21 as an over night boat but there are plenty here who use their boat that way. I agree that the pilot house is small/cramped and not the best for cooking and long term cruising. However, the cockpit is great!

So as others have said, it really comes down to what you want in a boat and how you plan to use it. The R21 has clearly exchanged cabin space for cockpit space and then with the remaining cabin space jammed in as much utility as possible. Of course, some of the functionality that is crammed into the cabin will not be the equal of similar functionality to that in a large cabin. Hence, some (IdleUp and perhaps me included), would just as soon not have certain items in the smaller cabin afforded by an R21. BUT Ranger Tugs isn't building the typical boat for just me (or for just IdleUp) but for what they think the market wants. HOWEVER, the people at Ranger Tugs are very accommodating and would probably adjust what's in the cabin to suit an individual user's desire. So rather than ranting here, did you consider discussing what you didn't like with the good folks at Ranger and asking what changes they could and could not make?

Also, as far as the speed goes, a 21' boat probably only has about 18' at the waterline giving you a roughly 6kt hull speed. Anything over that will require sufficient power to bring the boat on plane and the power requirements to get on plane the power requirements are much higher (for example, I cannot plane my 22 cd on just one of my twin 40's). Your 30' boat probably has/had about 26' at the water line and hence the displacement speed would be closer to 7kts (maybe 8 ). That is, a natural consequence of a longer boat is that you will get a higher displacement speed (the speed increase will go as the square root of the length). That's physics, neither you nor any boat builder can do anything about that. On all boats, the fuel economy can be very good at displacement speeds and below with low power. However, to get on plane will require more power and SIGNIFICANTLY higher fuel burns. The vast majority of people are not looking for that in a trawler (especially in these days of high fuel costs). In addition, the tug hulls were not really designed with planing in mind. Sure they can plane with enough HP but that's not the intention of the design. Hence the expectation that you have for much higher speeds and HP is not what most in the market want and not what the boat was designed to do. While you may see this as a "flaw", others see it as a "feature". BTW - what was the fuel burn of your Mainship 30 or 34 at 12kts? or 18kts? I'm betting you got about 4MPG at displacement speeds (which BTW is a similar to the R21 at displacement speed).

Finally, as to the need for a stern thruster on a 21' boat.... It's so damn easy to dock a small boat, I can't imagine why anyone would think that they need this (with the exception that it is required for the European Union's CE mark)! Hence, it's not surprising that it's not typically built in.