non self bailing- how safe?

dianeandsteve4re · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: non self bailing- how safe?

Hi all, My name is Steve. I am thinking of buying a c dory 22'. I am concerned about having a boat that is not self draining. Will it sink completely or ? How big a bilge pump(s) do you need?

thataway · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject:

David,
I also have been concerned about taking non self bailing boats off shore. I saw my first C Dory22 in the late 1970's in Alamitos Bay. That "fool" took the 22, with a 75 hp outboard to Catalina almost every weekend of the year--for several years. Subsiquently I have owned a CD 22--and have been in water much rougher than you would normally find in the Catalina Channel, with no singinficant water (a little spray) onboard the CD 22.

The hull form is like a cork--basically this is a boat made to float over the waves, not to drive thru them. Could you get water in a CD 22 over the stern or cockpit combing? Yes, I suspose you could. There are a few folks who have anchored by the stern, or been in heavy breaking seas, who have put water in the cockpits---but this is partly a judgement call (what one is doing and when to go out)--as well as handling the boat.

Put a second bilge pump in if you like--but I suspect that you will never need it.

Hunkydory · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject:

Steve

As always Bob pretty much nailed it.

For described situations you may want to take the time to sort through the clutter in the Grand Adventure Forum you will find several accounts of cruising in a CD 22 in fairly severe conditions where the cockpit stays virtually dry. There are many here experienced with all kinds of boats and the consensus seems to be that lack of self bailing is not a problem or concern with the CD 22.

I would recommend using the search on this subject, because it has come up many times, but I personally seldom use the search feature without coming out more confused then when I started and no doubt several will jump in Like Bob with good examples and advice.

Jay

T.R. Bauer · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject:

I would say, that a self-bailing floor would be nice, but it is not needed. If the seas are so snotty that you are taking on water over the side, the stern, or whatever, those little holes that drain the floor are not going to help you at all. Use your head; it will stay really, really dry.

flapbreaker · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:17 am Post subject:

Self bailing decks put the floor above sea level which makes for a higher center of gravity and more motion for the occupants. You would have to be in some SERIOUS seas to be taking water over the stern. If you study the weather/ocean predictions you should never find yourself in that kind of water.

T.R. Bauer · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:38 am Post subject:

And if you do, they won't do you any good anyway.....

Larry H · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:45 am Post subject:

Steve,

In the 15 years I owned my 22, I operated in Southern Cal including to Catalina in the winter, on many inland lakes and from Washington to SE Alaska and I never took on any water except spray. I think you will collect more rain water than sea water in the cockpit.

ryder · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:50 am Post subject:

westward · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:03 am Post subject:

Like all boats the CD 22 has some compromises, but safety and stability in big seas is very much a strong suit. In really rough stuff I'll get some splashing into the cockpit, easily pumped out if not ignored altogether. I'd personally rather the stability of the low CG than the "dry deck" of a self-bailing bilge design. Mike.

Doryman · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:34 am Post subject:

Speaking of big seas, last weekend I crewed for John Schuler on a run up to Bedwell Harbour on his new "C-Dory on Steroids" -- a 32' Coastal Craft which is laid out much like Clara, his old C-25. What really impressed me was the dogs on the cabin door. Made me feel like I was in a boat that was ready for any seas.

Warren

Jack in Alaska · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:07 am Post subject:

I agree with all of the above. Spray and rain get in the back and on only several occassions in 25 years have I had some go over the top of the cabin and into the cockpit but not much as it drains off to the side. I try to stay out of that kind of sea but sometimes one gets caught out in it and i can not think of a better boat to be in then.
Don't worry about no scuppers in a 22' dory as they are not needed.
I also have two 2000 Rule pumps, one in each corner and both on float switches with manual over ride.
A 22' C-dory is an extremely seaworthy little craft..

Chester · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject:

The lower floor results in a deeper, more secure cockpit.
IMO more useful than a self bailing cockpit that will have submerged scuppers when (if) seriously pooped.

Dora~Jean · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:30 am Post subject:

Larry H · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:37 am Post subject:

In discussing a self-bailing boat vs. a CD 22, I think the fact that there is no hidden bilge in a CD22 is safety factor. A boat that is self bailing can have water get below decks and accumulate there unseen. Those boats depend on the operation of an unseen bilge pump to prevent foundering.

In a CD22 the amount of water, if any, in the cockpit is visible and the results of the operation of the bilge pump is also visible. Should a CD22 take on excess water, the water can be bailed with a bucket. Something that is not possible in a self bailing deck boat.

journey on · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:44 am Post subject:

I'm not sure how a 22 is laid out regarding the aft bilge. However, it seems that the bilge pump should take care of any water in the cockpit, much better than any scupper drains. On my last sailboat, the cockpit was open through the transom, and any water that came in just flowed out, no pause. On the C-25, those two 1" drains, with a 2" head don't drain much. However, when the water drains to the bilge pump, there's a rather sturdy stream coming out. Instead of blocking off the cockpit, I'd assume that one would make sure that the water could easily reach the bilge pump. In fact, the scuppers are blocked off most of the time, to keep water from flowing in.

In summary, it's not the scuppers that keep you dry, it's the bilge pump.

Boris