2 stroke fuel systems

[cbadmin]

From: C-LionRay (Original Message) Sent: 1/23/2003 1:22 AM
A discussion about 2 stroke fuel issues.

From: C-LionRay Sent: 1/23/2003 1:28 AM
I would like to try carb cleaner to spray away the grime that may be lurking in the jets of my poor 2 stroke that sat quite a while before I bought it. I am concerned about displacing or desolving the oil that lubricates the rings in doing so. Is there a special carb cleaner for 2 strokes? Am I worrying about nothing?
Should I just buck up, pull the carbs and try to get them cleaned and back together and hope it runs right?
My concern with pulling the carbs apart is that it takes special tools to set the bowls and to adjust flow so they all balance out.
I would much rather spend my money on a windlass than a carb rebuild and clean...

HELP!

From: "Nancy H" Sent: 1/23/2003 9:21 PM
Ray,
I have been a Johnson-Evinrude 2-stroke mechanic for a long time, but I have never worked on a Suzuki.
My first recommendation is to get the shop manual for your motor from the dealer.
Then checkout the carb rebuilding information. This may help you decide on opening them up or taking the motor into the dealer.
J-E carbs have an access plug to the main jet. I have cleared jets with carb spray using the thin straw on the spray can. Problem is, you could blow the gunk into someother part of the carb. It's something that can be tried in an emergency.
If your problem is water in your gas tank( and it sounds like it might be), then cleaning the tank, and hoses, and installing a canister type fuel filter should be done at the same time as cleaning the carbs.
I hope this helps,
Larry

From: "Nancy H" Sent: 1/23/2003 9:29 PM
Ray,
I think it's ok to use carb cleaner(spray) on outboards. Any lube that washes off will be replaced when the motor starts. Unless you can spray through the jets though, carb cleaner (spray) would be used when you dismantle and clean the carbs, off the motor.
Any name brand spray from the auto parts house should be fine. Keep it off the paint!

Larry

From: C-LionRay Sent: 1/24/2003 2:33 AM
Thanks guys, I already drained the tanks and replaced the fuel water seperator. No water at all present in the filter. The bowls are not too easy to get to an dI may just have to take them off to do it. I have a genuine Suzuki manual but the carb section is prettty vauge. I guess that is why they send the mechanics to school.
I don't have the special tools to balance the flow or set the floats. Maybe I can at least cut down on the shop time by completing the rebuild part?...
Do you think I could get away with running Berryman's Carb cleaner/Octane Booster and cruising around for a day?

From: Chuck S Sent: 1/24/2003 4:26 AM
Larry (on Nancy H.) --

Anything special I need to do to revive a nice, low hour Johnson 4.5
full shift twin which hasn't been started in several years? This used
to push my 4000 pound J/24 sailboat.

Hand pull is smooth.

-- Chuck


From: Fun Patrol Sent: 1/24/2003 7:00 AM
Chuck:

I would check the lower end lube, then add some fresh fuel and try to fire it. If it starts, shut it down and put it in a barrel and run it awhile. If it doesn't start, check the plug for fire and replace if needed. While you have it out, check the compression. If it still won't start, or runs rough, you will need to clean the carb.

Good luck Roy



From: "Nancy H" Sent: 1/24/2003 7:45 AM
Chuck and Roy,

Roy's advice is good, but I would put the motor or at least the lower unit in a bucket of water BEFORE STARTING IT!!
The water pump impeller is lubed with water and a dry start can burn or melt the impeller. It only takes 5 or 10 seconds to damage the impeller.
The impeller is one thing that deteriorates in storage. The rubber takes a set and the blades can break off when it is started.
If the motor starts, check for cooling water coming out of the check pipe or exhaust vents behing the powerhead. If there is no cooling water, don't run the motor long. Hot spots can damage the engine.
Because a 2-stroke motor is lubed by the oil in the gas, the interior of the engine is coated with oil. I have serviced motors that have been stored many years and they pull smoothly and run fine.
Carbs can gunk up while stored and need to be cleaned.

Larry

From: "Nancy H" Sent: 1/24/2003 8:03 AM
Ray,
If you decide that the dealer should do your carbs, don't take them off or apart without checking with your shop. As a mechanic, I don't like to have the customer do any work first. When a mechanic takes the carbs off, he looks for problems as he takes things apart. If the customer works on it first, the signs of problems can be obliterated. Also, the mechanic has learned exactly what to take apart and what not to touch.
If you work on it first, it can cost you more to have the mechanic fix it than if you didn't touch it. After the carbs are rebuilt, the shop must test run the motor and verify that the problem is fixed. I would not warranty that the motor would run after working on "carry in" carbs.
Sometimes what seems to be a fuel problem can actually be an ignition problem. In my shop I would verify that the ignition is ok BEFORE starting on the fuel system. It is possible that a motor can run a low speed and have a miss at higher speeds caused by the ignition.

Larry

From: C-LionRay Sent: 1/24/2003 8:50 AM
Thanks Larry, I'm going to drain the bowls first and check what comes out. If nothing comes out I'll suspect a jet. If water comes out I'll have to clean them or take it in for service cause oil and water make glue . If it's just good ol' gas I don't know what I'll do... Keep looking I guess...


From: C-LionRay Sent: 1/24/2003 9:44 AM
Well, nothing but good gas in the bowls. I did find a clamp on the ball that needed about a quarter turn... Could it be that simple? I wouldn't think so .
With my sausage fingers I can't see a way to get the bowls off to inspect and clean the jets without taking the carbs off... Maybe I'll take it to the river in the morning and check it out?


From: Chuck S Sent: 1/24/2003 3:01 PM


Thanks, I'm going to grab the shop manual and see what rubber parts like the impeller should be just replaced. I had part of a rubber impeller almost get into the water passage of my olde Atomic 4 engine and it was hard enough just pulling the pump, let alone the head. I'm guessing this has a flat piece of rubber diaphram for a fuel pump, but I'll know more later. Can't even get to the shed, there's so much snow back there. This weather is driving me crazy! -- Chuck