fuel water separators

mwilson · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: fuel water separators

I have a pair of racor filter separator does anyone know where to get a manual for it? Can't seem to find anything on the web except where to buy one.
I need to replace the spin off filters and not sure what will happen when I spin it off is there a check valve that will stop fuel flow? Does the plastic on the bottom spin off as well? Do I need to fill it before use? thanks michael

Captains Cat · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject:

Michael, I see from your profile you have twin Honda 40's.

I don't know of a "manual" but you really don't need one.

I need to replace the spin off filters and not sure what will happen when I spin it off is there a check valve that will stop fuel flow?

Nothing will happen, the system is not pressurized. Just make sure you take your fuel hoses off at the engines and release the pressure in each by depressing the little ball in the fitting to do that. A little fuel may trickle out at that time but now, when you take the filters off, none will come from the hoses. Be careful when you spin them off that you keep them level because they WILL be full of fuel and crud..

Does the plastic on the bottom spin off as well?

It does spin off but it's easiest if you take it off with the upper metal part and separate it AFTER you get it away from the boat. Be careful with it, use a strap wrench with padding to avoid cracking it.

Do I need to fill it before use?

Technically, no but it'll be easier to get the system full of fuel again after you replace them if you do. It's a trick to do that and then get them in place to spin them on but it can be done. After getting them back on, reconnect your fuel hoses to the engines and pump and pump until the bulb gets hard. Sometimes easy to pull the engine cowlings and observe the little engine fuel filter as it fills with fuel. They are located under the cowl about midway back on the stbd side of each engine. Might be good to replace them too, they cost less than $10 and are pretty easy to get out and back in.

Good luck, I didn't have the plastic on the bottom of mine (had two on my 22 with twin Honda 45's) and emptied them many times, underway even when I got some shots of water and cruddy gas.

Charlie

mwilson · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice I'll work on them next warm day. michael

BrentB · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject:

Anything on the Parker site useful?

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.de7b26ee6a659c147cf26710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=fcc9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN&vgnextdiv=&vgnextcatid=9946&vgnextcat=B320%20SERIES%20(BOWL%20AND%20ELEMENT)&redirect=true

http://www.parker.com/

flapbreaker · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:21 am Post subject:

If your plastic bowl is like mine you can drain the bowl with the valve that's at the bottom before unscrewing the filter. I had a hard time seperating the bowl from the filter. The bowl would turn but it was just slipping around the plastic part with the threads that's screwed onto the filter. Wound up taking a sawzall to the filter and cutting it in half so I could get some vice grips on the threaded part of the bowl and hold it in place while turning the rest of the filter. Anyway, hopefully it won't take brute force for you.

Larry H · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:17 am Post subject:

Safety note:

The Racor filters with the plastic bowl and drain valve are for use in the splash well only.

If the filter is inside the boat, the bowl must be metal and the drain has to be a plug which needs a tool to remove.

These are USCG rules. All fuel system components inside the boat must meet a burn test (plastic bowl doesn't pass) and cannot have a drain valve openable by hand.

Replacement filter elements with metal bowls are available, as well as replacement filter elements with the plastic bowl.

ON EDIT THE USCG DOES NOT REGULATE OUTBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS. See page two posts.

flapbreaker · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:

Larry, My dealer installed the plastic bowl type in my lazzerette. I don't doubt your assertion that they should be installed in the motorwell however my guess is the spirit of the coastguards rule has more to do with keeping these filter type's from being installed in motor compartments like on an inboard motor where there is a constant heat source. What about the rubber tubing carring the fuel though? Seems like that would fail in a fire?

Larry H · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject:

flapbreaker,

The correct hose to use inside a boat is the type A1. This rubber hose has a thick wall and must be labeled USCG A1.

This hose has been tested to withstand fire for 1 or 2 minutes.
The hose must be double clamped onto metal fittings with metal hose clamps.

The thinner wall hose usually seen in the splashwell with the primer bulb is not fire rated and is not to be used inside the boat.

The USCG has regulations for marine fuel systems, and in my experience of working on boats, the manuf do not always follow those regs. Dealers can be even worse about following regs. They either don't know or don't care. (No slight intended on dealers). Boat dealers and mechanics carry a heaver burden to follow the regs in that the dealers and mechanics are considered to be 'experts' and will be held liable in the event of an accident.

If that filter unit is installed in the stb lazarette, it is most likely in the same compartment as batteries, battery cables or other wiring. You and your boat might survive an electrical fire in a wire or cable, but not if gasoline is feeding that fire.

Many boat owners change parts of the fuel system in a non-complying way. They usually don't know what meets the regulations or why, and they are following automotive practice.

It is possible to 'get away with it' for a long time, but if the worst happens, it can be a long swim home!!

ON EDIT: THE USCG DOES NOT REGULATE OUTBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS, ONLY INBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS.

SEA3PO · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject:

I wondered just how fire proof that A1 fuel line was....so I took some and tried to burn it with a propane torch.... it will char... but I never could get it to burn.... I really put the flame to it...nothing but char... well worth the outrageous price they get for it...

Joel
SEA3PO

Dreamer · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject:

Larry,

Thanks for the sumation of the fuel line and filter regs. Here's the reality of the C-Dory conformity to regs:

Plastic bowl on filter, inside port lazarette, single clamped hose!

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject:

If you attend drag boat races or car races you'll notice that all fuel lines used on serious racers are either solid metal tubing or stainless steel braided covered hoses with swedged and threaded end fittings. These folks have to be serious about fuel fires.

You'll find the same high standards on high performance boats like Eliminator, Cigarette, and Fountain.

Except for the cost factor, this would be a great way to do a boat up right!

Joe. Teeth

Larry H · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject:

Roger,

Thanks for posting that picture. That is scary!!

Splashwell filter with hand drain, mounted inside over an electric motor. Wrong! Wrong!

Large diameter hose from tank. Right! Single metal clamp Wrong!

Small fuel hose from filter to primer bulb with single metal clamp. Wrong!

If C-Dory installed that filer, they could be liable if there is a fire or explosion.

Note that the TC255 has bilge compartments where gas could drip and pool out of sight and out of smell. At least the CD22 has no bilge and any gas might be noticed on the cockpit floor.

To correct this installation, I would install the correct filter and clamps, and use 5/16 or 3/8 A1 hose from the filter to the squeeze bulb and the small hose from the bulb to the motor.

ON EDIT: THE USCG DOES NOT REGULATE OUTBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS, ONLY INBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS. I STILL RECOMMEND FOLLOWING THE INBOARD REGS FOR SAFETY.

Larry H

Larry H · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject:

Joe, Nice install on the hot rod.

Inboard boats have an additional fuel system requirement.

CG regs say fuel under pressure(from the pump to the carb) cannot be in a rubber hose. A pinhole leak can spray fuel vapor(unseen) into the engine compartment where it can be ignited by a stray spark. Electrical components must be spark protected.(no automotive alternators or starters, marine only)

The most commonly seen error is that an owner will install a fuel filter (usually a small metal or plastic canister with rubber hoses and spring clamps) into the metal fuel pipe(tube) between the pump and carb. In the boat shop I replaced many metal fuel pipes that had been modified as above. Another common automotive practice that can blow up a boat.

If no factory metal pipe(tube) is available, A1 hose or better can be substituted.

OK, I'm putting away my safety lecture soap box for the day!!

Captains Cat · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject:

How about the USCGAUX guys chime in! It may be that in this case (TC255 and CD25) since this is an unpressurized system (suction only), and it doesn't get pressurized until it gets to the fuel pump under the outboards cowling that it's OK to have the filters, with the plastic bowl on the inside of a covered area.

I'm not saying it is OK but is it within the regs? The 25s I've seen have them inside the stern area through a hatch and the TC255's do too.

Charlie

Larry H · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject:

Charlie,

Good idea to ask if any CG Aux members will speak to this issue.

The filter in Rogers boat says Honda on it. Since Honda does not make any inboard motors, only outboards, I think that is what they supply with the O/Bs or as an accessory.

Racor has filters for inboard diesel boats which have a metal bowl beneath the plastic bowl. I asked the rep at the boat show if that was a drip bowl and he said no, it is to pass the fire protection standard.

The hand operated drain valve is definitely not allowed inside a boat. Any drain on a filter must be a plug requiring a wrench to open.

ON EDIT: THE USCG DOES NOT REGULATE OUTBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS, ONLY INBOARD FUEL SYSTEMS. I STILL RECOMMEND FOLLOWING THE INBOARD FUEL SYSTEM REGS FOR SAFETY.