Permatrim Hydrofoils

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:48 am Post subject:

Bill -

How thick would you say the material is on that Portatrim? From your photos it looks to be about 3/16"? Maybe 10ga (1/8" give or take)? I might have to make one for old Jon Boy out of polycarb just so he can put his demons to rest. He's already got holes in his deal, so he could drill the trial plate to match 'em. If it works for him, maybe he can save a few bucks and buy one of them instead of the tabs. His Classic Angler has rounded corners where the tabs go, so putting them on requires a little extra effort. We'll get sued if you give me all the dimensions, but I have a pretty good idea of the size judging from the picture. I do believe his Honda 90 and my 130 have the same lower unit, so it would be easy to fit up without seeing his motor. Santa Claus might be going to the Boat Show.

The way you describe the turning improvements, that thing might be well worth having, even with adequate tabs.

And I wouldn't say you are "rank". A little ripe sometimes when you've been boaterhoming a while without Dana around, but not rank.

Jon - CLou · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject:

I did say I was going to try the trim tabs and forget the hydrofoils, but somehow Mike's reading my mind again. I really do got this bad itch to try that Permathing. Mike, how did you know?

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject:

Well Jon, it's like this. I didn't realize you had already thought of trying the thing anyhow, but I knew the next time you had your boat out you would want to. Because....now that you have those holes drilled in the cav plate, the butt end of your boat is really gonna sit low. So you're gonna need something. It's amazing how much water will leak through them little 1/4" holes.

No promises, but it should be a snap to make. A hundred and four bucks is too much for a test. Who knows - it might work better than the original. We can market it as the PermaDork.

Jon - CLou · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject:

You Da Man!

Lynn Marie · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject:

Geez,

The Gizmo shop is still up and running. I thought maybe the proprietor had closed the door and taken early retirement.

Jon, you'll like that new permathing. All the stuff I got from there is working just like the day I bolted it on. Great equipment at a perfect price, or was that perfect equipment at a great price. Oh well, you get the idea.

Tim

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject:

Jon -

Behold the first, the last, the only PermaDork™ in the world. Do you want me to mail it, or wait'll next month and deliver it personal?

The material is polycarbonate. I'm not saying it's tough, but if the rig you drive at work has a clear plastic barrier between you and the bad guys, chances are it is made from the same stuff. Bulletproof? No. But it will hoist C-Lou's scrawny little butt up a couple notches.

There are no mounting holes drilled in it. You can transfer the holes you already have in the cav plate and drill it yourself. For the trial, you don't need a whole bunch of screws, but use at least two per side with one pair pretty far back on the cav plate. It fits real good on my Honda 130, and Les told me a while back that it has the same lower unit as the 75 and 90.

You're gonna be a dork if you try it, though. Just one small step from nerd.

Jon - CLou · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject:

Wow Mike, that's amazing! Heck yeah I'll try the Permadork out, although it doesn't look dorky at all. As a matter of fact, that thing looks very hi-tech.

As much as I would like to slap that deal on there right now, I'll be patient and get it at the SBS. I'm sure others would like to look at your talented work.

Way cool Mike Thumbs Up

Jon - CLou · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:29 am Post subject:

Well Mike, I took her out on glassy Lake Crescent today and this is what happened:

Running in a straight line at different speeds ( 0 to 26 kts.), the Permadork performed great. When I got the boat trimmed out at around 21 kts., the boat was like riding on air. Great smooth ride!

When turning in circles (left and right turns), I think this is what impressed me the most. I started with a moderate turn running at 20 kts and trimmed it up a bit. The boat turned like my car, unbelievable! So, I got brave and went faster and faster while turning in circles. Still, the prop never washed out. Finally, I put the hammer down and cranked her pretty tight and the prop still wouldn't wash out. The boat tracked really smooth in all the turns. There wasn't any weird felling like that SE300 hydrofoil I recently removed.

I'm sold. The only thing I noticed is that it flexes quite a bit, but it didn't seem to hurt the performance much.

Thanks again Mike, I had a ball trying that thing out. It really works.

Tonight I decided to purchase the real Permatrim for $104 plus tax for three reasons:

1.Mike gave me the reassurance to spend $104 dollars on the real
Permatrim.

2.With Mike's permission, I would like to pass this fine piece of work on
for others to try. It will save you some bucks if you don't like it.
If you're running any other hydrofoil other than the Permatrim, I
think you'll really be impressed

3.It really works. Thumbs Up

Tyboo Mike's gadget shop does it again!!!

Mighty Bite · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:18 am Post subject:

Hey Jon,

Glad to hear that you like the Permatrim. Nice to have the Wizard of Warrenton come up with the "PermaDork" as a test and try facsimile. Mike's a pretty crafty kinda guy. I liken him to the mad scientist with an uncanny bent for practical applications and execution.

After getting Bill's/DaNag's feedback I felt pretty confident that the Permatrim was a good way to go. I used it this past summer and fall and was very happy and impressed with it. I have a SE300 and a Stingray that are gathering dust as they look for a home. I won't need them anymore if some one else has a use for them.

Enjoy!

Da Nag · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject:

Woo hoo! Triple Brat Dorks!

I modified the first post in this thread to include the installation method I used - it differed slightly from the instructions included with the Permatrim.

katkt · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject:

I enjoy reading the input on this site because you people tend
to be very objective in your approach to stuff just like the
Permatrim. The Permadork was a really nice piece of work. Thumbs Up

One of the neatest things about the permatrim IMO is that
it sets right over the prop and is big enough to suppress the bulge
over the prop. The impression I get is that this should reduce the
slippage of the prop in the water, and provide more forward
motion. Feel free to tell me I'm out to lunch on this idea. This and
the added trim capabilities is why I purchased them for our boat.
I haven't had a chance to put them on yet, but will certainly
provide feedback when I do. Smile

TyBoo · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject:

FDO, Jon! That's too cool.

Absolutely, ship the thing out to anyone who wants it. What someone ought to do is come up with a low-profile clamp gizmo of some sort so they can try it without drilling the holes. You already had holes in your A/V plate, and matched them to the Dork, so no problem. But others might get so many holes in the plate that their motor sinks.

To tell you the truth, I think the ability to flex is a very good thing. It kind of softens the stress on the cast aluminum A/V plate, which will not flex much even if it needs to. To make a guaranteed one out of that polycarbonate (same stuff as Lexan), it would have to be molded to shape to keep it from eventually breaking at the cuts, holes and bends. I bet the original PermaDork would make it a season or two, though.

From what Bill tells me, the genuine article is made out of 1/4" aluminum. Not much flex there, and a good bump from backing the trailer into a tree could cost a big check to Honda. Whatever you do, don't stand on the thing like the guy in the ad does. Cynthia could stand on it alright, but keep your butt off.

If a guy wanted to get rich, he could make the things out of 10ga stainless and custom fit them to each size/brand of motor to spread the attachment stress out. Of course, the people who bought them would have to be rich, too.

Did you notice any straight line steering differences? Like wanting to pull to one side or making it harder to turn one way than the other? As sensitive as those outboards are to a little tweak of the rudder skeg, I would think that the big wings of the foil could cause some problems if they were not identical in depth and area. There's no way I bent that piece of plastic junk perfectly, so maybe it isn't that critical. If all you boating pros keep raving about the performance, I see a stainless steel one on a Honda 130 somewhere in the future. Better stock up on toilet paper now, because I got a feeling the pulp mill prices are going to go up!

Glad to be able to return some of your help. For us working stiffs, $104 is a lot for an experiment. Especially when you probably have that much tied up in junked out hydrofoils that didn't work as wanted.

OK - I won't make fun of you if you buy one of them dorky lookin' PermaTrims.

Captains Cat · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject:

Any thoughts on putting those gizmos on twins? Would there be room, dead ahead and on turns? How about full right/left rudder? I'd assume the right size for Honda 40/45/50 would be the next size down from the $104 model?

Charlie

TyBoo · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: