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25' C-Dory Cruiser--Permatrim
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2331
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have twin 90s on our 25 and I have a set of permatrims waiting for install now. I plan to put them on in the next few weeks. I researched the He.. out of them and I think it is worth the investment and a great supplement if not nearly a replacement for trim tabs (with twins). Can't wait to try them and I know there was at least one other Brat with twins and permatrims.
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Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse
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toyman



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 556
City/Region: Lake Livingston
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2006
Vessel Name: Fan-C-Dory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This past summer I felt that the Fan-C-Dory struggled a little to much to get over the hump and up on plane, and even then wanted (I felt) to ride bow high. I have Lenco TT's on it, but think that they would be better if they were shaped like the Bennett, and/or the next size larger.
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Stuck in the 70's,
In East Texas
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Lucky Day



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 215
City/Region: Churchton
State or Province: MD
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lucky Day
Photos: Lucky Day
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toyman,
I have a permatrim mounted on a 2004 Honda 135 -- the permatrim is mounted on top of the anti cavitation plate. That's what the directions on mine called for.
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toyman



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 556
City/Region: Lake Livingston
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2006
Vessel Name: Fan-C-Dory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. The Permatrim you have must be different than mine. The instructs for mine say mount it below the cav. plate. It has a hole that looks like it is made to fit above the trim fin (between it and the cav plate) but to get it there I have to loosen the trim tab to let it down so the Permatrim thickness will fit between the trim tab and the cav. plate. When I do that and slide the Permatrim forward to where it "looks" like it should go (the hole in the Permatrim aligns with trim tab adjust circle) the flare of the motor leg forces the Permatrim down to much for Permatrim to fit between the cav. plate and the trim tab.

No answer at Shipyard Island Marina, guess I'll wait till Monday - nap time !
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mmitchell



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 163
City/Region: Whittier
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: ShiRoz
Photos: ShiRoz
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installed Permatrim's on ShiRoz 2 years ago.
Benefits: Helped in the Harbor as it has made the boat more responsive in throttling both motors while maneuvering in the harbor.
Boat is more responsive in turning while cruising.
We have not seen a decrease in gas mileage.
It is has made it easier to balance the boat while having passengers in the boat and shifting while underway.
Overall it has been a value added addition to the boat.

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25 C-Dory ShiRoz 2006-sold 2012
32 Trawler Adirondack 2012-
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Dreamer



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 1763
City/Region: Really Sunny SaddleBrooke
State or Province: AZ
Photos: Dreamer
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishbum & Toyman,

I would assume the installation on a 90 would be the same as a 135/150. Here's the 150 installation. See my album for more detail.

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Once a C-Brat, always a C-Brat

Dreamer- Sold 25 Feb. 2013
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TyBoo



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 5310
City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was curious about the under plate mount too, so I looked here.

Toyman - I share your experience with the Lenco tabs. The PermaTrim is going to do great things for you. I have the inadequate Lencos on my older (and heavier) CD25. When I first put the PermaTrim on I didn't think much of it. There seemed to be very little change until I relearned how to adjust the tabs and motor trim. I was hoping to get the bow down more. It would do that, but at a cost of top end speed and fuel burn, neither of which I could spare. Then I discovered if I used less tabs and let the bow run up where it always has, the PermaTrim would essentially lift the whole boat out of the water more and give me an increase in cruise speed of ~20% for the same fuel burn. I like that. Plus, the boat feels like it skitters along more like my 22 did. I like that, too. Plus, B~C told me that Honda 130 wouldn't care if I ran it at 4800 - 5000 rpm instead of 4200 - 4400, which gave me even more cruise speed on smooth water for the same 2mpg. I really like that. I adjust motor trim to get the max mph for rpm, and it always turns out to be with the prop parallel to the water surface. So I can just look back at the top of motor to see where the ideal is, and use the tabs for lateral trim. Simple and elegant. I really like that.

Don't give up. I imagine the Shipyard guy will tell you to relieve (grind away) the aluminum so it fits just right, which will be pretty easy to do. Or, he might trade you for a top mounting plate. But I would imagine there is a reason they went to the style they did for the Honda motors in that HP range.

And please, by all means, do not do like I have done and wait two years to report back on the way it all worked out. Embarrased

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TyBoo Mike
Sold: 1996 25' Cruise Ship
Sold: 1987 22' Cruiser
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Socrateur



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 244
City/Region: Danville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Skipper
Photos: Sea Skipper
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Honda 150 has the plate mounted on top as you can see below. The installation is very similar to the 90hp photo by Roger-Dreamer. An added benefit is that slow speed turning is improved due to the downward turned edges which provide a slight but noticeable rudder effect. Straight line tracking is also very solid.


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toyman



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 556
City/Region: Lake Livingston
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2006
Vessel Name: Fan-C-Dory
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jay, what size is your Permatrim (if it's available to measure) ? The one I have "looks" larger - it is 16.5x22.75".

Thanks all for the info. Got a note from Andy Jr last night - I sent him some pictures, so we'll have this sorted Monday.
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localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From their website it looks like there are two different versions/part #s for 150 Hondas, dependent on single or twin engine application.

Smaller H9:
http://www.permatrims.com/M9_Silver_Permatrim_Hydrofoil_p/h9_silverhonda.htm

Larger M8:
http://www.permatrims.com/M8_Silver_Permatrim_Hydrofoil_p/m8_silverhonda.htm

The latter matches your measurements (roughly) and specifically says for single outboard apps on boats >23'. It also has the "hole" you mentioned.

I'm running into the same issue; the Suzuki 150 on boats >23' requires the larger foil @ $$219.95. Mad

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Socrateur



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 244
City/Region: Danville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Skipper
Photos: Sea Skipper
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is smaller as you suspected and matches the H9 specs.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mounted the Permatrim above the cavitation plate on the 130 Honda--and it did make a huge difference in both performance and ride.

The photos on the Permatrim site show a different version for the 135 and 150; since these are different engines than the 130, it appears that there must be a reason for the change. I am sure that Andy will give you a good answer why.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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toyman



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 556
City/Region: Lake Livingston
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2006
Vessel Name: Fan-C-Dory
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope we can make the larger plate work, I think, in the case of Fan-C-Dory "Size Matters".

The hole in the plate is smaller that the sector on the trim tab so the trim tab can't be removed and re-installed after the PT is installed. Also the trim tab (on my motor) is less than 1/16" clear of the bottom of the cavitation plate - maybe grind off a little of the top of the trim tab ??

How do you grind Aluminum without clogging the wheel ?
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TyBoo



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 5310
City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toyman wrote:
How do you grind Aluminum without clogging the wheel ?


You do not want to use a stone type grinding wheel to grind aluminum. As it plugs it up, the aluminum is getting forced into the stone and can build up sufficient pressure to make it explode. Best to use a disposable sanding disc or a coarse file. Even a wood rasp will cut the aluminum if you hold the plate securely enough.

It will be easier than it looks. The biggest concern will be taking off too much material once you get going.
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toyman



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 556
City/Region: Lake Livingston
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2006
Vessel Name: Fan-C-Dory
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks TyBoo. Will discuss with Andy tomorrow.
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