Is AIS in the house?

[journey on]

In trying to find out if they make an USB AIS receiver, I found out that NMEA 2000 is a bus type data system, quite different from NMEA 0183. The intent is to eliminate all those incompatible proprietary busses (SeaTalk for example,) and go to a standard, with common hardware. I found a presentation (takes Power Point) Here: NMEA 2000 vs 0183

I guess NMEA 2000 isn't NMEA 0183 at a faster speed?

A puzzled Boris

[Byrdman]

Merv...Howdie. I may just get back out that way soon. Would love to return the favor of 1st voage photos for/to you....and that is RF246. (Rosborough Fiberglass)

I guess all of us who have had 1 or 3 C-Dory boats, but may no longer just all need to pool our funds and buy portions of one....and say leave it in Oak Harbor as to have something there during our visits with Kathy, Les, Dusty, Carl....and the kids.

AIS = Good.

Byrdman

[thataway]

I hate to put this hijacked thread back on the subject--but last night I looked up the various costs and available AIS recievers. RayMarine plug and play unit is about $850. The cheapest is the Milltec single channel at a time (it scans between the two AIS channels) starts at $189. It comes with a 12 volt power cable and a RS232 seriel cable. The 162 comes as a dual channel reciever, and the 162G is a dual channel reciever with a GPS reciever. These all come with a CD which has some software and a shareware version of "SeaClear". But you do have to either have a splitter for the VHF antenna or a second VHF antenna, plus cables to adapt the seriel to USB interphase. So..if you want to DIY you probably can get a AIS system up and running on your laptop for somewhere North of $300.

To my knowlege, Garmin has not fully developed their AIS system, althuogh the last several years units have had an AIS menue, it is barely functional, and takes some "work arounds". There are a few folks who have it working.

There is also a SeaCAS Safepassage 100 unit, which starts at about $625 for the basic dual frequency reciever on up to the SeaCAS Safepassage 300 with the VHF antenna, and GPS for a little over $1000. This also puts out a NMEA 0183 stream of data. One has to remember that the baud rate of the AIS data is very high and the chart plotter has to be set to recieve this NMEA data rate of 38,400 vs the "normal" rate of 4800 baud.

Another option, which seems cheaper and easier, but I have not tried it is the Sitex AIS 100 black box which uses the same NASA AIS engine as the Milltec and costs $289. This will interphase with many of the Sitex chart plotters from the GSP 95CP ($368) on up thru 5", 7", 11" and 15" chart plotters (15" starts at $2000). All of these are C map plotters and will allow the AIS direct connection and display, and most of them also allow Fishfinder, and Radar input. The cheapest AIS and Chart plotter would come to $ 657 and all would require a VHF antenna. Or there is a "AIS radar" for $529 which requires GPS NMEA 0183 and a VHF radio antenna input. This is a monochrome screen with your boat in the center, and theother AIS targets displacyed in their relationships on the screen, with no plotter. All of these complete units are substantially less expensive that just the AIS box which RayMarine sells to plug and play into their E or C series of chart plotters.

[Grumpy]

One of the problems with any analysis of emergent electronic technologies is that by the time you have done it, it will be out of date. I get a strong feeling that the AIS world is going to be defined by forces far greater than us mere, pleasure seeking mortals wanting nice toys and even improved safety on the water.

As far as I am concerned I came, I saw and I bought.
I spend a lot of time dinking around the Puget Sound traffic lanes, often in company with colleagues less well equipped and I will pay a few bucks for the added safety margin. Not perfect, but... call me paranoid if you will. I find it better (as long as the red bucket has enough pennies) to get on with life and fit whatever makes you feel comfortable. I spend all my working life making (anal)lytical business decisions based on rate of return over 15 - 25 years and it took a long time for me to realise that this had absolutely nothing to do with my real world life where I do not have to satisfy my shareholders (other than the admiral) and I certainly have less probability of making the 25 years from now scenario where it breaks even.
This is supposed to be about fun.

Merv

[hardee]

Thank you Dr. Bob for the exacting information. And to the rest for their interest and input. Thanks, Roger (Dreamer) for the link to the live AIS. I put that question out and then have not been able to get back here, but it sure looks like there is interest and it appears that it could be more tool than toy, of course that depends on the conditions that you are out in.

I spent quit a bit of time with the folks a SeaCAS, and it seems like a good system. For those of us with RayMarine, (RM), if we have anything plugged into the RM system, (like my Azimuth compass), the RM only has one input port and would require a bus that would allow multiple inputs. Since the VHF, Radar, Auto Pilot, and compass are all plugged into the RM, a bus bar input would be required. Even with the RM AIS from what I could gather there, a bus bar input would be necessary. Their (RM) guys recommended an antenna splitter, Which isn't my favorite way to go but I already have 2 antennas and need to add a third for a redundant VHF. I didn't have much luck with getting a lot of info from the RM guys at SBS, but SeaCAS was very helpful. Their entry level, SafePassage 100 is entirely adequate since I already have GPS input and chartplotter. With the bus, Antenna splitter, cable and Antenna it will come it at close to $1000. Might not have it by Friday Harbor but it will be on the need list, along with a dingy and second anchor. Obviously it is a need based on safety, right?

Harvey
SleepyC

[timflan]

A note about the Raymarine AIS250:

It's expensive, but for the money you get a built-in antenna splitter and built-in NMEA multiplexing, which can be important. More on that below. On the down side, the otherwise well-designed AIS250 is only a single-channel receiver. That is, it scans between the two AIS channels but can only take data from one at a time. Surprising that they got this detail wrong...because otherwise it would be a top pick.

Now a note on NMEA multiplexing. Hold on to your hat, Harvey. My Raymarine C-series chartplotter has one NMEA port on the back, and two SeaTalk ports. Here's how they're allocated now:
SeaTalk1: GPS
SeaTalk2: Autopilot
NMEA: VHF radio with DSC, which is both an NMEA "talker" (DSC messages) and a "listener" (GPS coordinates).

Now I COULD use a multiplexer, which costs around $300. An NMEA multiplexer works like this: In one direction, it collects high-speed (AIS) and low-speed NMEA input, aggregates it into a single high-speed NMEA datastream, and sends it on to the chartplotter. In the other direction, it takes high-speed NMEA output from the chartplotter and sends it onward to all the connected devices at the appropriate baud rate.

But guess what: I don't have to use a multiplexer. How? It came to me this morning, and I confirmed with the helpful folks at The Offshore Store today that it'll work. They install plenty of these, and one guy there said he's never had to use a multiplexer. Here's how it will work:

The problem is the VHF radio, which is DSC enabled and therefore requires a constant stream of GPS data; it's an NMEA listener. When the VHF receives a DSC call with position data, it can send that data to the chartplotter to be displayed on the chart; so it's also an NMEA talker. In order to maintain both without a multiplexer, I'm going to split them.

The radio's NMEA output ("talk") destined for the chartplotter will go INTO the AIS receiver. Virtually all of the AIS receivers, even the $200 MillTech Marine unit, will take incoming low-speed NMEA data and insert it into the high-speed datastream going to the chartplotter. So that problem is taken care of.

Now the tricky part. The VHF needs GPS coordinates. And it turns out I already have a device that can supply GPS coordinates in low-speed NMEA. No, not my GPS receiver...it's SeaTalk only. If you have an NMEA GPS, you CAN split the signal and send it two places, according to The Offshore Store, so you could theoretically send GPS data to both your chartplotter and directly to the VHF. That isn't possible in my case, so I'll use the NMEA output from my autopilot. The autopilot, in essence, already has a SeaTalk/NMEA converter onboard, and it has terminals for NMEA in and NMEA out which are currently unused.

So I'm going to add AIS reception. For $200 plus some specialized cables. That's the theory, anyway! Wish me luck.

[Larry H]

Poor mans AIS,

For those who want to know where the 'big guys' are but don't want to or cannot spend $$ for the AIS units, or for those who do not have a chartplotter to display the info on:

Monitor VHF channel 14 in the Puget Sound, Hood Canal and adjacent waters south of Marrowstone Point in Admiralty inlet.

Monitor VHF channel 5A in the Str of Juan de Fuca, San Juan Islands, Rosario Str, and Bellingham Bay.

Monitor VHF channel 71(Vancouver Traffic) in Harrow Strait, Boundary Passage, Strait of Georgia north of Saturna, and Gulf Islands,

All large vessels are required to report their position, speed and destinations to Traffic Control. Small boats(that's us) are 'non-participants' and are welcome to listen. Non-participants are allowed to contact Traffic Control and request information on the location, course, and speed of 'big guys' and 'tugs and tows' which pose a danger to us or when we pose a danger to them.

Non-participants can also call the big guys directly to verify passing or crossing situations which could result in a collision. If you have to call a 'big guy' use the same channel that they are using to contact traffic control.

Please, Please, Please--- If you want to call on the traffic control channels, use proper VHF protocols! Keep the calls short, state that you are a 'non-participant' and you have an 'information request'. Wait for traffic to get back to you, they may be very busy with shipping in an area you cannot hear on your radio.

A typical call would go as follows: Vancouver traffic--this is (your boat name), a non-participant, requesting information.

They will respond and ask you what you need. You then respond: For example--- Traffic, this is(your boat name) requesting info on any traffic in Boundary Passage.

They will tell you about any traffic in your area, or that there is 'no reporting traffic'.

Mostly us small boats just listen and will hear if there is any traffic of concern, but if you have to cross a shipping lane in the fog with no radar, it is very reassuring to know that you will not be run down by a tug and tow or ferry.

At first this may seem intimidating, but if you listen to the traffic channel, it becomes clear whats going on. The operators of the 'big guys' are professionals and do not want any collisions!! If you need to contact a ship or tug for your safety or their safety, do so.

Safe boatin to yah!!

[timflan]

That's great advice. I always monitor 14 and 16 while I'm out from Edmonds. The ferries leave pretty regularly, and they always check in on channel 14. Between the time I arrive at the boat and the time I get outside the breakwater, I've usually heard at least one vessel traffic report.

I've never had to call on 14, but once you've monitored it long enough, it'll be pretty clear how things are handled. In fog or darkness, if I had any doubt about what was happening (especially in the traffic lanes), I'd feel confident calling and asking for a summary, just like the ferries do.

[hardee]

WOW,
I started this thread wondering if I was the only one interested in the possibilities. I am impressed, amazed, and thankful. Humbled in my surroundings. Thank you C-Brats for all the info.

Tim: Thanks for the specifics on the RayMarine. You may have solved this $$$ issue for me.

Larry H: Thank you for the reminder of the VTS system and channels, and that we do have access as "non-participants" .

Grumpy: Thanks for putting it into perspective.

Dr. Bob: Thanks for getting the thread back on track, and all your homework.

Roger (Dreamer): for the cool AIS view site.

No if only Raymarine would come out with the 2 channel as a newer and better, and cheaper, I'd be on it in a heart beat.

Harvey
SleepyC

[matt_unique]

I just checked out the site. I will check later in the day but it seems hard to believe there are non approaching Boston. There is also no coverage area for regions south of Boston.

[Captains Cat]

Matt, I can see Boston and areas to the south, down as far as the entrance to the Ches Bay. Haven't checked further south. Not much or any traffic in the Bay though. On Edit, traffic in the Chesapeake now, lots around Portland Me but NOTHING in NY or Boston. Hard to believe...

Charlie

[matt_unique]

[timflan]

Those computers might be offline. It's not a "service". It's just a group of hobbiest/enthusiasts with AIS receivers connected to their computers.

[Larry H]

AIS question: I have a Raytheon 41XX radar from 1994. Does anyone know if an AIS receiver will display on that radar?

Second question: How do you hook up an AIS receiver to a computer? What program will it display on?

Larry H

[timflan]

Not to sound too glib, but "check with the manufacturer."

But here's what it's going to come down to: Is Raytheon/Raymarine still supporting this unit with software updates? The C-series and E-series chartplotters from 2005 didn't support AIS until a new software release about a year or two ago.