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Is AIS in the house?
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12569
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Is AIS in the house? Reply with quote

Spent not nearly enough time at the SBS-08 and came away with a new appreciation for AIS (Automated Identification System, I believe) the stand-alone receiver will work with a VHF antenna splitter, and will display larger, maybe faster, commercial traffic around you on your chart potter.
Wondering if there are C-Brats using these devices already. I am thinking only of the receiver system, not the transponder. Much less $$$.
Harvey
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Dreamer



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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City/Region: Really Sunny SaddleBrooke
State or Province: AZ
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvey,

Haven't convinced myself yet to spend the $1000-$1300 for more gizmos on the screen. I'm sure they would be helpful but I'd end up watching the screen more and out the windows less.

See www.shinemicro.com to see a live display and compare units. Shine Micro owner Mark Johnson goes to our Church and I believe invented the AIS system. The class B units that receive and broadcast a AIS signal are not yet approved in this country.

Any luck on the Dinghy search?

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 19934
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some very cheap units (about $200)--and it is probably worth while buying one of those, if you are in crowded areas with high incidence of low visability--like the PNW. If the B are not approved by May, I will buy one of these for our trip to the PNW this summer.

I have played with several units, but held off bying one, waiting for the Class B transciever, which as Roger says held up in the FCC for at least 6 months. (Politics having to do with MARtel's radio license on channel 87B [87B and 88B are assigned to AIS]?). The Coast Guard has recommended its release.

I have used both recievers and the class A transcievers on some international voyaging boats. Definately worth the $$, and a real suppliment to Radar.

From the Coast Guard web site:

All ships of 300 gross tonnage and upwards engaged on international voyages and cargo ships of 500 gross tonnage and upwards not engaged on international voyages and passenger ships irrespective of size shall be fitted with AIS,

A Class A AIS unit broadcasts the following information every 2 to 10 seconds while underway, and every 3 minutes while at anchor at a power level of 12.5 watts. The information broadcast includes:

MMSI number - unique referenceable identification
Navigation status - not only are "at anchor" and "under way using engine" currently defined, but "not under command" is also currently defined.
Rate of turn - right or left, 0 to 720 degrees per minute
Speed over ground - 1/10 knot resolution from 0 to 102 knots.
Position accuracy - differential GPS or other and an indication if RAIM processing is being used
Longitude - to 1/10000 minute and Latitude - to 1/10000 minute
Course over ground - relative to true north to 1/10th degree
True Heading - 0 to 359 degrees derived from gyro input
Time stamp - The universal time to nearest second that this information was generated
In addition, the Class A AIS unit broadcasts the following information every 6 minutes:

MMSI number - same unique identification used above, links the data above to described vessel
IMO number - unique referenceable identification (related to ship's construction)
Radio call sign - international call sign assigned to vessel, often used on voice radio
Name - Name of ship, 20 characters are provided
Type of ship/cargo - there is a table of possibilities that are available
Dimensions of ship - to nearest meter
Location on ship where reference point for position reports is located
Type of position fixing device - various options from differential GPS to undefined
Draught of ship - 1/10 meter to 25.5 meters [note "air-draught" is not provided]
Destination - 20 characters are provided
Estimated time of Arrival at destination - month, day, hour, and minute in UTC

Class BShipborne mobile equipment provides facilities not necessarily in full accord with IMO AIS carriage requirements. IEC has begun work on a Class B certification standard, which should be completed by 2003. The Class B is nearly identical to the Class A, except the Class B:

Has a reporting rate less than a Class A (e.g. every 30 sec. when under 14 knots, as opposed to every 10 sec. for Class A)

Does not transmit the vesselís IMO number or call sign
Does not transmit ETA or destination

Does not transmit navigational status

Is only required to receive, not transmit, text safety messages

Is only required to receive, not transmit, application identifiers (binary messages)

Does not transmit rate of turn information

Does not transmit maximum present static draught

Search and Rescue AircraftAircraft mobile equipment, normally reporting every ten seconds.

Aids to NavigationShore-based station providing location of an aid to navigation. Normally reports every three minutes. This may eventually replace the racon.

AIS base station.
Shore-based station providing text messages, time synchronization, meteorological or hydrological information, navigation information, or position of other vessels. Normally reports every ten seconds.


I would argue for a separate antenna, with a soldered connection to the PL259--these seem to give a significantly longer range.

Read all about it at: http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html

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Thataway
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Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7308
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
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Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked at the live data on the SHINEMICRO site and only saw two vessels in the Ches Bay! None in the Potomac River. So it looks like it would be overkill for us here. We'll keep it in mind though.

Lots of action in Puget Sound and down South in Cal and up North here around NYC.

Charlie

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Byrdman



Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have it and use it on my boat. No, the Cumberland River does not have busy sea ports, but do have the big tugs pushing barges 3x4 at time full of coal, sand or other items. The river is very, very sharp in several of the tight turns. This allows the beacon to be picked up miles before we really need to pass or pass bye each other. It is a great safety aid, even on very clear, bright sunny days. With this I can "see" the barges when straight line very close, but river miles sometimes 2-10 miles away in some of the horseshoe turns. What you do not want to happen is to be traveling at about 20 knots, already in a tight turn due to the narrow channel, and whammy.... the river disappeared and turned an interesting barge color...and he is moving at 6-7 knots and no way in the world he can make any adjustments at all due to the tight turns, currents, winds, and load... so...we use to just freak and pray, and take our best dodging action. Now, we contact the barge by name, and let him know we are in the area, and find out where he would like us to pass. Much more professional, much safer, and much easier on the crew to ease around knowing the wall is coming. I was not sure I would like the money I spent on it. But, even in the rivers in the down town Nashville area, you can "see" how active each tug is...if they are sitting still, or moving...or starting to move. I guess now that I have had it, it is one of those things like radar I never had before and thought big deal... Then, a few days/nights in the fog, or just real dark nights when that chart may be off about 1/4 mile in a 1/8 mile wide river turn...and you really need the purple lines to stay between. Rock win, boats loose. So, yes I am glad I have it. Now, as to figure out how to turn off some of the alarms. It is cool when it starts flashing the little gray triangle when courses are going to intersect. But, the Captains have to turn the units on...and you feel cheated when you see them...but their triangle is not working. Sad Thumbs Down
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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just checked the san juans and none of the ferry show up in port or on the water, so thats useless. many of the ferries on the sound showed up so maybe they just dont have it on. The good thing is that the game wardan has one on his boat that info is worth the price alone Laughing
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Larry H



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,

I just checked the San Juans and saw a ferry at the Anacortes dock and the Guemes Is ferry.

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Larry H

A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
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Doryman



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen both WA and BC ferries on my AIS display multiple times last summer.
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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well when I checked the site listed above they were not
there. dont know if its a site thing or the ferrys.
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timflan



Joined: 16 May 2006
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City/Region: Seattle
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Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom, the ferries are all equipped, and they don't have an option to "turn it off". If you're not seeing it on one of the online AIS viewers, it probably just means the shore-based receiver doesn't have a line-of-sight to the ferry.

Or maybe the ferry just wasn't there...them Washington State Ferry's been havin' trouble of late. Smile

I've written a lot about AIS over at Navagear. I was going to make it my mission at the boat show today to see how cheaply I could get AIS reception added to my boat.

Actually, I HAD it working on my boat. Fred Pot of SeaCas saw our AIS coverage on Navagear, and provided us with a loaner unit to play with. We got it hooked up, we saw the ferries at Edmonds and Kingston, and we decided to get the boat outside the breakwater and see what the view up Admiralty Inlet looked like. Started the engine, and...it never worked again. I had to return it to Fred Pot, and for SOME reason he hasn't seen fit to give me a new one! Smile Can't imagine why not...

His tech said it was damaged by a voltage spike, probably during engine start up. This is frustrating...ALL the electronics manufacturers tell you to turn everything off while starting the engine, but realistically, I'll bet we all break that rule. I do. All the time. Well, some components may need extra protection.

I don't want to suggest that the SeaCas products aren't high quality, by the way; that isn't the impression I get. I suspect I just got a bad one.

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centerisland



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the SJI now, I see the Sealth just north of Lopez, the Kaleetan south of Eastsound, the Elwa at the Anacortes terminal, and the Hiyu apparently at a WSF depot in Anacortes.
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Grumpy



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only had one shot at playing with an AIS system and that convinced me.
Left the dock at Cornet bay with Les and the screen immediately warned us of a tug and barge under the Deception pass Brige which was hidden from us by the island.
No problem in the CAVU conditions that day but it would have avoided an interesting nose to nose around the corner in fog.
New boat will have one.

Merv

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timflan



Joined: 16 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merv, I don't know what the official C-Brats policy is, but I for one hope you stick around even when you're cruising on your new boat. Smile
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Larry H



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Official C-Brat policy?? Rolling Eyes

"No Rules--Just Be Nice" Wink

Have a nice day!! Teeth
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Grumpy



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.
The way I look at it is a C-Brat is a C-Brat and we "resemble that" remark.
Doesn't matter what we are driving today, we are a group of like minded individuals and would never give up the friendships formed on this group. We have many fond memories of Kingfisher (I) and never intended to move up again in size but reality set in and if we are to go all the places we want to go then somethinging had to change. We don't have time to do it 20 years from now.
Thanks also to all of you who made the new owners of Kingfisher really welcome at the CBGT. We really missed being there but the flu bug laid us low.

Tim, I have not forgotten your interest in the deck panels. I had to hang on to them until after the sale as I had some potential buyers who preferred them to Mahogany !! I will PM you.

Our CD on steroids should arrive any day now and we are really happy that Les will be doing his usual stellar job of rigging. Sorry that his services will be lost to C-Dory but that is not for me to comment.

So if any of you out there this year wonder why some damned fool in an RS 246 comes screaming across the water to wave at you and chat, just remember it's a C-Brat with withdrawal symptoms !!

The real good news is that we are finding that the Rossy Owners group "feels" just like the C-Brats. Same kinds of ideas, same sharing of helpful suggestions and, yes, even some familiar faces.

C-ya'll

Merv & Kathy
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