Over-width Permit's (Towing)

[Dragonfly]

N.C. has recently begun enforcing over-width and over weight laws on recreational boaters. The Carolina Sportsman Magazine has several articles on this. I was told by D.M.V. enforcement anything over 102 inches needs a over-width permit, and any trailer stamped 10,000lbs or greater needs a Class A Commercial Drivers lic. ( They use GRVW stamped on trailer ). I have not been stopped, our trailer at the guides is 106 inches. Just wandering if I'm the only one concerned about this, by the way I've called for a permit application. Has anybody else gotten over-width permit,s for a CD-25 and has anybody had a bad experience? Larry

[Les Lampman]

This here is a sticky wicket because you wade into an grey area between Federal and State laws and interpretation.

Every reg I've read has allowances for "necessary" safety devices...like side mirrors and such...on top of the 102" wide limit. I can see a valid arguement for the side guides being the same. I've never heard of anyone being stopped with anything that's in the vicinity of 102" wide. Even a 9' wide boat doesn't look too wide on an 8.5' wide trailer (3" overhang on either side just doesn't show up much...not that I recommend this at all without the proper permit mind you!).

And with regard to the licensing you really have to watch the terminology. The Federal government sets and mandates the rules under which a CDL (Commercial Driver's License) is issued and the States must comply. They can have addtional requirements but they can not force you to obtain a CDL (a real one) if you're not driving a commercial vehicle as defined by Federal regulations. That's why folks don't need a CDL to drive a 40,000 40-foot Prevost motorhome. They may be required to have an endoresment on their license for an oversize vehicle (and the endorsement may be based on the Federal CDL statute) but that's a State requirement as an added endorsement and not a requirement for a true CDL.

Every attempt I've seen by a State to implement something like this usually goes by the wayside quickly when the Law Enforcement Officials decide it's impossible (too expensive) to enforce, the constituents start hammering on the political types, and tax dollars are lost because they're scaring off recreational users and business start complaining.

Can you imagine how many trailers (boat trailers, travel trailers, fifth wheels, toy haulers, etc) are out there owned by private recreational users that are over 10,000 GRVW? They've got to be insane!

Good luck!

[thataway]

As always Les covers this subject very well. I drive an RV which is 102" wide, but the mirrors stick out about 12" on each side, and the awning is 4" and fixed at the top of the RV. It has been explained to me that not only safety, but removable are key words in the size difference between the 102" the legal limit and the actual width. For example my mirrors could be removed, but then the vehicle would be illegal to drive--so it is clear that they must be left in place, but can be folded back if necessary. (these mirror are true side mirrors, not the front mirrors which stick out a little to the side). The "guide on's" for the trailer are a different matter. If necessary they can be removed. So if you were stopped, you could unbolt them, and then put them in the cockpit.

The driver's license is a bit more complicated. Most states (but not all) have exceptions for "recreational" vehicles--which include boat trailers. Some do not and reqire an endorsement or CDL. Some states have "brake" endorsements--especially air brakes.

I remember that the 45 foot length was tested in California--and my recollection was that the RV industry won (there was a 40 foot length restriction).

So if push comes to shove, you have a good chance of 'wining". But I doubt if a recreational boat with 4" extra overhang will be stopped. There are also rules for the Interstate freeways which have to be universal.

But the GVWR is really sticky, since North Carolina defines the GVWR as: "in the absence of the manufacturer's GVWR label
affixed to the vehicle, the registered weight or the actual weight, whichever is greater, shall be the GVWR." Again, it is probably unlikely that you will be stopped (there was a thread on of the boating forum of some Florida boaters being stopped and actually weighed and measured, but this appears to be very rare unless there is some other citation given.

However the North Carolina commercial drivers license web site gives the specific exemption:
"Certain vehicles do not require you to have a CDL in order to drive them. However, you may still need a non-CDL, Class A or B license. These exempt vehicles include:

Recreational vehicles and others used for personal use"

We have been in 47 of the states with RV's or trailers which were slightly over the 102" and never been stopped. This includes the C Dory 25 in about 15 states.

[damason]

I believe that for a slightly over width load you probably will not be stopped, however if you are in an accident and they measure you, some charges could be filed. Drive safely and obey all traffic laws. In other words stay in the shadows, hide behind the trees, and stay low in the trenches. When they day "Duck" do not raise up to look.