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Portland Pudgy
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

128 pounds on that PP, unladen. I'll be interested to see what you come up with for getting it on top of the boat. Neat boat.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:12 am    Post subject: Might never need it put it on the roof Reply with quote

Quote:
Well you will both be happy to hear that not only does a pudgy have a drain plug but you can also leave it out while towing because it is self bailing with up to 30 extra pounds of gear stored in the waterproof walls. It has also been test towed up to 28 knots without any tendency to flip and they encouraged me to try that for myself (tempting). The bottom of the boat is a foam filled block with a flat floor inside so the drain plug is actually above water line without people in it. That was one of the intelligent designs that sold us on the product.


Great info on the towing. Might never need it put it on the roof. Cool.

Harvey
SleepyC

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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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City/Region: Gig Harbor
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pudgy was delivered last week. We took it out camping over the weekend and really like the design. It was a bit slower than I expected with our electric motor (3.5 mph) so we will likely add a 2hp honda to the motor maintenance list. I don't have any pics loaded yet but its the basic boat in yellow and I will post some soon. As far as how to use it with our 25....thats what I am working on now (along with curtains).

We will have it sitting on a Thule car type rack on kayak saddles with the rack feet sitting on the roof and clamped to the grab rails to keep it stationary. Sweat Pea did that and has nice pics in their album.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=SweePea&id=PICT0466_edited&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

I am planning to launch it over the bow using two bars (16.5 in spacing) as sliders mounted to the forward rack crossbar and spanning forward about 10.5 ft to the bow rail. The bow rail will have to take the weight transition and to strengthen it I am adding two more stainless 1in verticals a few inches back from the anchor roller. These will have pins and be removable if needed. At that point, which will be slightly raised off the bow rail to clear the keel, another pair of bars with the same spacing will hinge downward over the bow rail to the water with about a 9 ft length. At the end of those will be a fender linking the bars at 16.5 inches which corrisponds to a nice molded channel in the hull of the pudgy. That 16.5 inches spacing will be used for both sets of bars to make the trip from the rack to the water. Ther is another channel at about 35 inches but I am leaning toward the smaller dimension. A simple friction brake will slow the descent of the pudgy off the bow and I don't think sliding it from the rack to the railing will be difficult (might use a light lube). Pulling it back up the bars from the water over the bow will be the trick and for that I plan to use a small pulley system manually operated and anchored to a stainless eye I am adding to the rearmost centerpoint on the cabin roof. I would like to use standard hinged rail fittings with removeable pins so that it can all be deployed and collapsed in two primary sections in a couple of minutes and stowed under the Pudgy on the roof rack with a couple of straps. The details change a bit each day and once I have a prototype to test it will likely evolve a bit more. I made some fancy graphics but they kept changing so I store the design in my head for easier change management.

Thats the plan and I hope to have it working in time for the Friday Harbor gathering. I we come in with a yellow boat in tow, that means I am behind schedule.

Any suggestions on the best sources for tubing and rail hardware? Or other suggestions...


I love this kind of problem,

Greg

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Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this would work for you, but I have used either small roller bearing wheels, or trailer rollers for launching or retrieving heavy dinghies.

We had one which weighed about 375 lbs with the RIB, fuel, battery, gear, and outboad--used a simple trailer roller and electric winch with a SS cable to pull over the stern (much bigger boat than C Dory 25)--but the idea is the same. You might also consider teflon over the area you want to pull the boat--to avoid damage to the hull.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I visualize this, it has several problems--first you have to use fittings which fit inside of the SS pipe (the only choice to me would be SS pipe--and even that will flex with the weight you are considering. The boat is 128 lbs and you are considering 175 lbs--what is the difference? 175 lbs is a lot of weight on the C Dory cabin top--and on the SS tubing. (our 25 had a lot of flexing on the cabin top--as I recollect it was not cored in the center raised area--how will this weight work on the un cored fiberglass under these pads?) Not sure what size tubing you will need to avoid serious flexing- but in aluminum, it would be considerably thicker tha 7/8. SS in 1" might be OK--we brought the 375 dingly aboard, using a SOLID SS 1" bar, and supported about 4" outside of the 18" trailer roller. (even though the entire bar was about 8 feet long, we had supports because of flexion) You are looking at about half that weight--and that is a lot of weight.

The next issue is the bow railing--are you going to cut it out,or modifly it to get rid of the "bow" upward--which will catch the boat, unless this tubing is much above the bow railing. Next is the fender--that is not much floatation and the weight of the boat will push it right on down, so you will be pulling that 175 (128) lbs almost straight up. That will take a considerable block and tackle--or electric winch. Your weight will be on the bow, as you try and guide it--I suspect, as well as the 175 lbs of the boat on the bow--this will tend to make the C Dory a bit less stable. Getting back to what I posted above, I would consider a trailer roller at the junction of where the bow railings and the the rails into the water come together. --maybe even a roller clamped along the way? You are going to be putting a lot of force on that boat right at the point where it comes from the tubing which is in the water to that which is on the boat--almost straight up. Also as tubing bows, it will both sag and be pushed outward if there is a rounded component of the boat's bottom.

I am not sure how fast you want this boat to go--but with the 2hp you will probably not get much over 5 mph--so not a lot more than the electric motor.

Even with the self bailing characteristics, I am not a big fan of towing any dinghy--and I occasionally tow a 12 foot aluminum skiff behind my Tom Cat (This boat weighs 183 lbs and I would never consider putting it on top of the Tom Cat--I did carry the 12 foot skiff on a 42 foot trawler Sun Deck roof, and used an Atkin's Hoyle 1200 lb capacity davit--it made the 42 foot (30,000 lb) boat heel significantly as I loaded it over the side) and have towed a 22 foot Grady White behind a 42 foot Trawler--but otherwise, I just don't tow dinghies. I have seen too many lost or capsized.

Yes, it may have been tested at 28 knots, but in what sea conditions?

The PP certainly sounds like a great boat
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2331
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 175lb number is just a conservative goal I keep in mind for worst case scenario. I plan to keep the boat under 150 including some equipment kept in the storage compartments. The amounts of force and friction on the incline from water to bow will be significant but without a prototype slapped on and some light pressure applied, it will be hard to know the specific treatments needed. I would rather not cut a section out of the bow rail but rather use rubber pads, short pole sections or some other method of raising the guide poles over the rail just enough to clear the keel. I don't know what that height will be but I am guessing about 10 inches.
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

128 pounds and more...wow!

I've got a WaterTender 8.8 Dinghy that weighs 62 pounds (hull weight), and it seems awfully heavy to me, and weighs almost as much as my Avon Rover 280 at 71 lbs.


Would be a lot easier to carry heavier boats like this on the stern of a boat with a Weaver Davit (or similar) if it weren't for the outboard(s) and relatively smallish C-Dory boat size.

Could a "wrap around" swim step be designed for a C-Dory that would allow a dinghy to be carried and deployed behind the outboard(s)?





Joe. Teeth Thumbs Up

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no reason that you could not design a carrier which would fit over the cocpit or behind the cockpit. There are a number of carriers which fit on the swim platform, or behind it. I came close to buying a 45 foot trawer this winter, which had a 12 foot RIB with center console and 25 hp outboard, mounted on a SS rack, which fit on 2" sq SS tubing bolted and angle braced to the transom--very much like a trailer hitch. The rack had rollers and a manual winch ( it had an electric winch in the past). The RIB was winched aboard athawartships.

There are also several hyraulic lifts which fit behind swim steps or take the place of a swim step and will carry a large dinghy.

You could fabricate a rack over the outboard, and splash well--and I suspect that this would be far safer and easier to use than the rails over the bow. In any case the dynamics of the boat will change, because of more weight higher and in positions other than where normally carried. Re fabricating a bow pulpit is no big deal--we did this on several boats, to give us walk thru access to a Passeral mounted on the bow (the reason for a Passeral [or gangplank] mounted on the bow, is that the rudder of sailboats is often too deep to get close to a bank or dock where the gang plank would be used.

I think that somehow trying to get a 10" keel, or bottom of the boat, up over a bow pulpit would be extremely difficult and perhaps dangerous. There is also the question of there would be damage to the pulpit. Also the anchor roller position has to be considered, and be certain it does not do damage to the dinghy. If you were to follow that route, I probably would fabricate a new bow pulpit, which was only attatched in the middle by a lower bar, and at the top was rounded at each side--thus attatching a trailer roller between the top parts of the modified pulpit and bringing the rails to each side--and then the keel over the trailer roller. There may be other boaters on this form, who have had heavy dinghies, and used other than davit systems to bring them aboard, but it is not easy to do, without a carefully engineered system.

If you put in long davits to put the PP behind the outboard, it would put more weight aft (sort of a leverage effect--and because of the outboard, the davits would be further aft than on a Ranger 25 tug. You might also have to put some cables from the davits to the back of the cabin house--sounds a bit mesy.

Just some other thoughts to consider.
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Messy is what I would like to avoid. We do have a very sturdy camperback that a couple of modifications could make strong enough to hold the Pudgy but I would rather not add more weight to the stern (still up high) with twins already making it heavier that average. The bow is going to be a challenge but I bought a trailer roller today and I am ready to try several approaches and evolve along with it.

Greg
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please keep us in the loop, and document with photos. After looking at photos of your boat, another possibility would be to bring one end of the PP up over the side of the foredeck (might have to shorten the bow rail)--and then pivoit it to pull it up to the cabin top.

Another thought--and entirely different way to go--is to re-design the aft bimini top to work like a "stacker" trailer, where the top rack pivoits down near to the water as a parallagram, the boat is winched aboard, and then the framework is winched back up to its full height--then the boat could be winched foreward (I know your radar is in the way).

In all of this I know that you will take all precautions to be safe.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Portland Pudgy is the ideal dingy Reply with quote

Dr Bob said

Quote:
"Another thought--and entirely different way to go--is to re-design the aft bimini top to work like a "stacker" trailer, where the top rack pivoits down near to the water as a parallagram, the boat is winched aboard, and then the framework is winched back up to its full height--then the boat could be winched foreward (I know your radar is in the way)."


Gregg,

That is the option that I thought would work for us with the PP, but we deferred on the PP due to the weight, (having it up high on a 22, and it's affect on the stability). I still think that the Portland Pudgy is the ideal dingy, just not for the 22. Good luck with your project.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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Photos: Aurelia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stacker idea is pretty good but it would be hard to keep the fabric in place during transitions and the fabric would also get in the way while securing the boat once loaded. We tend to keep most of our camperback installed during use and in my case, I am hesitant to add more stern weight. I am moving forward with the original plan minus the two bars running from the bow to the roof rack. I have slightly modified the connection design for the other set of bow-to-water bars for rigidity and will first test tensioned tubular webbing running from my rear anchor point through the support saddles and down to the ends of the bow-to-water bars. They will sag some and likely need a couple of spreaders between the strands to keep them together although the channels in the hull will help with that. Webbing is low friction and low stretch and an easy material to work with while being cheap to replace. If it works, we will have a ready made bow hammock as well.

The modified connection at the bow includes long stainless from water up to 125 degree elbows near the tip of the railing, a short section of horizontal tube and a 90 degree tee tied back to the bow rail with a short riser section of tube featuring pins for take down. On the stern end of that tee will be another very short tube section and end cap with eye for webbing attachement with clip or pin. I may need to use a simple tensioning rig at the rear of the roof on that webbing to make the clip/pin connection easy but still get those things tight. With weight on the webbing, the tubes into the water will also be pushed upward but I don't think the leverage will be enough to lift them out of the water. The upward angle of the webbing will help a bit.

I have ordered nearly all of the parts now and put the rack on last night. Buy the way if you have a 25 cruiser and want a nice roof rack, I found the magic combination of components after much suffering and will post it on the roof rack thread.

Greg
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's on the boat now and I need to make some adjustments to the saddles on the rack but it looks good up there overall. I also have the bow rail reinforced with two additional and removable down tubes and will get started on the main assembly tomorrow.

Lots of activity on the marina today with the start of boating season this weekend for most folks.

see pic,

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Aurelia&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting photos. Did you put the PP up on there from the dock? Or, were you able to pull it up over the bow from the water? Have you tried the radar to see if there is any interference from the PP?

Good luck as you continue with this project. I think the PP is a nifty boat, but I don't think I'd care to have that additional weight and windage on top of our 25 (and we've been known to carry our inflatable dinghy, bikes, and camperback up there). I hope you're able to make this work to your satisfaction.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
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Aurelia



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't look so strange up there. We may end up carrying it rear facing most of the time. We tossed it up there from the dock originally but have been testing the over-the-bow method at the marina as well. I keep having to tweak the geometry and structure of the bow slides but the concept is proving to work. I can say for sure that getting it off the boat is simple but the ramp and haul system for the way up is where all the experimenting is required.

We had it out is some gale gusting wind last week and 3-5 foot steep waves and it stayed put very well. I even went beam to the waves and didn't really feel the weight up there. We are loaded up nicely down low with three additional batteries in the seat cabinets so that helps a bit. The windage should be apparent when docking but while on the move it won't be noticable at c-dory speeds and in the conditions we are willing to travel in. Also, The boat really does not seem so heavy but the width makes it a two person carry for sure. The little wheels on the stern are great for manuvering around on docks or at a launch on your own. I will load more pics tonight.

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