Force 10 Diesel or Propane

[jasonevans]

Wanted another heater in my boat. Does any one have a Force 10? Did you buy a diesel or propane? Did you perfer one over the other and why? What would you suggest I get?

I have a 22 angler with a wallace kerosine that's not working well and want a back up heater.

Jason Evans

[Sea Wolf]

Jason-

I have the propane Force 10 Cozy Cabin Heater. I choose it because I already had a propane system for a three burner Wedgewood cooking stove that was installed to replace the slow and sometimes smelly Origo alcohol factory supplied basic cooking stove. (The prevous owner said he couldn't stand the smell of partially burned alcohol.)

Propane burns much cleaner and is much easier to light than the diesel unit. On the other hand, the diesel is much less explosive. I added a carbon monoxide detector, a propane detector, and a fire/smoke alarm to make the installation safer. The tank is carried in the motor well to allow any leaks to drain overboard. I also added two small computer fans to help circulate and mix the cold cabin floor air and the heated air. You can see the installation in the photos in "Cabins and Interior" section of The Library (tech) section. There are several threads on this subject under the written discussions as well. Be sure to read all those on all types of heaters, as the different alternatives are discussed back and forth.

Red Fox (Greg), who also lives in Anchorage, feels his Cozy Cabin Force 10 is one of the very best investments he has made on his boat. That discussion is on the "Sound Dreams" web site listed here under "links".

One minor modification I'm still going to have to make is to extend the vent pipe up above the cabin top to get a full 30" of pipe. With the instllation on the countertop between the sink and the cooking stove, I only have about 17 inches of pipe between the top of the heater and the roof. The longer vent tube will provide a better draft, and the 30" is the minimum recommended by Force 10.

If you have room to mount the stove lower in your Angler, it will work better down near the floor, with the burner say 10 to 15 inches or so off the floor. This makes better use of the natural convective nature of the heat produced, and allows for a longer vent pipe fully contained inside the cabin, except for the final fitting on the roof. The cruiser model doesn't have room in the floor plan for the heater near the floor.

Go to the Force 10 web site and download the Installation and Owners Manual. It 's very thorough and useful. We'll be glad to help you if you have more questions. If you have questions that we can't answer here, Steve Rego of Force 10 will help you.

[Rock-C]

Joe & Jason
I've read of your installation of the Force 10 and am convinced it can be done safely. In my search of heaters, I think I've settled on the Dickinson Newport propane model. It is about an inch wider but only 5 1/2" deep. Also it uses a double wall exhaust pipe, drawing fresh air from the outside. As you know, room is scarce on a 22' I think there is room under the sink to mount the Dickinson and run the exhaust thru the counter top behind the sink. Do you use a solenoid on the gas line or run straight from the regulator?

[Sea Wolf]

Rock-C

I ran mine straight through w/o the solenoid, for simplicity sake, and since I would never have either the stove or the heater on without being onboard, and right there to turn it off if anything happened.

I don't feel either the need for a remote electrical control to turn the propane on and off, nor do I feel the need for an automatic cut off that is part of the propane detection system.

If I were to plan on leaving the heater on while I was away (BAD IDEA!!) or having someone else be alone who I didn't feel could understand the system adequately, I'd add the automatic solenoid shutoff system.

Additionally, an alarm without the solenoid control is a lot less expensive that a full propane control and detection system ($60-90 vs. $300).

I like the looks and closed system design of the Dickinson Propane Fireplace. Placement of either one of these in a 22 Cruiser is a tough engineering feat because so much of the space is already used.....

I think the under the sink will work for you. Will you remove or modify the cabinet door? I thought about using the space under the helm seat, but it seemed a bit complicated with all the required gas plumbing, venting, and electrical connections and probable need to insulate around the heater. It's nice to have the heater out in the open to inspect, operate, and work on it rather than down at the end of a "tunnel" or closet like enclosure.

Another unused space is the area to the right of the helmsman's legs under the window between the ice box and the electrical panel/bulkhead. The vent tube(s) would have to be routed back to the area behind the sink and between the windows and up and out, but I think I went over the Dickinson Installation Manual and determined that it could be done. The cooler double-walled tube would make it a safe configuration, perhaps helped by adding an additional heat guard or some insulation for your arm's protection. Again, the Installation Manual is a must-read while planning this adventure!

I assume you know these heaters can be purchased new for a considerable savings by searching the net. "go2marine" seemed to have some of the lowest prices around back when I was looking, although you miss out on the distinct pleasure of helping Arnold bail our Great Golden State out of the abyss at the end of the money hole in Sacramento.

HTH! Joe.

[Rock-C]

joe
Arnold and his financial woes is a whole nother subject.
As for the Dickinson, I would surround the heater with sheet metal to direct the heat out from under the cabinet, The 12v. computer fans are a good way to improve the efficiency. I am using one now to move air into the v-birth area.

[Mr. Fisherman]

I put a Force 10 Cozy Cabin heater in my 95' 22' Angler... I love it.
you can see the pics of my installation in the Sea Lion photo album.
I love it.
Someday I will put a stainless sheetmetal deflector and maybe a fan to move the air better but it will about drive you out of the cabin on a cold night as it is.
It sure is nice to have clear windows and a toasty cabin in the morning....

[jdoskoch]

Greetings... I'm considering a used C-Dory without a Wallas. I've been in the market for one (with a Wallas) for over two years. There just don't seem to be many here in the Midwest with them, so if I want a C-Dory, which I really do, I may have to add some heating source after. It gets chilly up here on Lk Michigan. Is there anything new out there anyone can recommend in terms of safe heating systems? Estimate of cost? I'm not super mechanically inclined, and may consider having a shop put something in for me.

Also, there is a C-D 22 here in Charlevoix, MI, up from FL. Anyone know "Reunion" owners? I left them a note, but haven't heard back.

[Sea Wolf]

jdoskoch-

If you read through all the posts under stoves in that section of the Library, you'll get a real education on the pros and cons of the various types of heaters. Other than the Wallas, the Force 10 Cozy Cabin in propane and diesel along with the somewhat more advanced Dickinson 9000 propane fireplace are the most common choices. The Force 10's run about $400 on the Internet, and the Dickinson can be had for about $600. But you also have to add the propane supply and safety systems to this which can add $200-$400.

There's a Toyotomi forced air model, too, but it's a bit too much for a cabin the size of a CD-22 in terms of minimum heat output, and has to cycle on and off all the time. It runs about $1200.

There's also a simpler version of the Wallas without the cooktop, but at not a similar reduction in price. About $1400 in the box, as I remember.

You can also get a 1000 or 2000 watt generator and use an electric generator, but that's too noisy an alternative for some. But it's a super easy install that anyone that can plug a toaster in can do! And costs under $1000. ($800 for a Honda 200Ia generator, and about $100 for electrical busbar (GFI) and the heater.) The heater also plugs in great at the dock with an extension cord if you have power there!

It also may come down to what system your local marine dealers are comfortable and good at installing, and/or sell at their store.

The boys up in Alaska have got some really exotic diesel and wood stoves that will also burn coal, driftwood, whale and walrus oil, bear grease, dried salmon skins, black powder, and anything else that doesn't move fast enough to get out of the way and/or and you can scrounge up off the beach or forrest. You'll probably hear from them shortly. (It's getting cold up there, their boating season is basically over, and they've got a lot of time on their hands.)

Keep the Home Fires Burning! Joe.

[416rigby]

If you want a portable one, we use the Mr Heater "Portable Buddy"...the smaller of the two models they offer...and it works great in our NCD. It runs on 1lb propane bottles, or can be hooked up to a 20lb bottle. A 1lb bottle lasts darn near all day long while trolling in the winter. We paid 80 bucks here in Kodiak. It is made for indoor use...boats, tents, campers...and we love it. Something to think about if you won't use the boat a whole lot in the cold weather...and the price is certainly right.

Rick

[Redƒox]

[Salmon Slayer]

Jason, like Seawolfe said, its getting cold up here and we know how to heat but the boating season is just beginning...all the tourists are gone!

I use a diesel pot belly stove and have pics in my album. I have also had both the Force 10 and various Dickensons in previous boats....and I way prefer diesel as propane scares me.

I also had a fossil fuel stove in a sail boat I bought to live on after I got divorced. Sounded romantic roaming the wilds of Alaska using driftwood, peat etc. to keep warm but it was nothing but a messy exercise in frustration. I soon ripped it out and installed a Dickenson Pacific.

Look in websites and magazines that cater to sail boats and older wooden boats, there are a lot of good ideas and products (including stoves) that are designed for small sail boats that work well for C-Dorys.