FRS Radios for CBGTs?

[Pat Anderson]

Almost everyone has a pair of Family Radio Service (FRS) radios, they are cheap and good (if you don't, you can get a pair of Cobra radios from buy.com for $30.00). In the current Waggoner Cruising Guide, Bob Hale recommends using FRS radios while cruising to keep inappropriate chit chat off the marine VHS channels. While chit chat on channel 16 will get you a rebuke from the Coast Guard, all the other channels are SUPPOSED to be used for something relating to operation of the boat, not idle conversation. I know this is mostly honored in the breach, but that is the actual purpose of the VHF channels. Using FRS radios instead just strikes me as a very good idea for our C-Brat Get-Togethers as well, as an alternative to VHF channel 68, which we have been using by convention. With the combination of channels and privacy codes, I think there are over 800 settings we could use. Plus they can also be used on land as well as on-board. They might be useful, for example, for locating friends at the Seattle Boat Show coming up later this month. What do other folks think about switching to FRS radios for our boat-to-boat conversations at CBGTs?

[rogerbum]

Sounds like a good idea to me although the range is not as good as VHF. In practice I only get 1-2 miles of range. However, that should be sufficient for chatting between a cluster of boats and for the boat show. I have several. We also use them sometimes for ship-to-shore communication when the wife is at a campsite/hotel room and I'm fishing nearby.

Maybe we should just pick a channel for the C-Brat group usage and if others want to join in, they can.

[Valkyrie]

Pat,

We've used those when traveling with communication between cars, keeping in contact when separated when camping in remote areas and so on.

The only problem that we faced was that fact that there are SO many out there that you constantly pick up chatter from others, even when picking what would seem to be an oddball channel, like 6.7 or something like that.

It does seem like a good idea, with a few reservations.

Nick
"Valkyrie"

[Sarge]

The shortcomings that Nick and Roger stated are true, they have a limited range and a lot of people use them, but those are probably acceptable when traveling in a flotilla on the water.

First - your range is probably greatest over the water since they are line of sight and there are no trees, hills or buildings blocking the transmission.

Secondly - having a limited range, all the people on land using them shouldn't interfere too much with people on the water because their transmission strength is limited. The strongest signals will definitely be those closest using the same frequency, which should be the boats in the flotilla.

If you were cruising around a large beach park or similar you might run into lots of interference from land based users, but otherwise in the middle of the Sound it should work quite well.

Line of sight is the key. If someone is on the other side of an island, say in the San Juans, then they most likely don't have the range to communicate.

If I'm not mistaken, our VHF radios are 5-15 watts and a FRS is less than 1 watt.

Personally, I think it's a good idea.

[thataway]

Fixed marine VHF radios are generally 25 watts, the hand helds are from 1-6 watts output, the Family Radio Service are limited to 0.5 watts.
We have used the FRS radios between cars for maybe a mile or two at the most, but very handy in close situations, such as backing up the boat in tight spaces.

Sounds like a great idea for the gathering, but there are really limited channels--even with the sub codes.

[hardee]

I have used the FRS radios, VHF (fixed and handheld) and CB (again fixed and hand held). The FRS are smaller, lighter, and lower powered than the others. They are great in short distance, out to 1-2 miles, and I have had about the same distances with several, long distance (7-12 mile) radios as with the 3-5 mile range ones. They would be fine in a flotilla running together, but like was mentioned, if you are on the far side of an island, reception may be sketchy.

I have wondered about "chatting" on any of the VHF channels, and I know it has been done but it really doesn't belong. At one point I asked about the us of Citizens Band radios and the question was politely ignored. The CB radio is far more expensive, the antenna rigging is more exacting, but the range is considerably greater and the use recommendations (read regulations) are, by practise, far less rigerous.

I know there is a portion of the boating public that use CB radios, and I would be curious just how many C-Dory are already equipped. I have thought about putting one on mine on SleepyC, but I don't really do any fishing at this point, and I suspect that is where most of the CB use would be. I also need to instal a fixed VHF/hailer combination so I am running out of room on the overhead.

I am sure not opposed to using the FRS for CBGT's, and running together, I think it's a great idea. I also understand their limitations.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Pat Anderson]

Yeah, what everyone says is true of course, and I don't think FRS radios are a substitute for VHF- but when we are cruising with other C-Dorys, we are usually maintaining visual contact, certainly close enough for FRS radios, and even if the other boats are a mile or two away, the range is there. We will have ours at SBS. We use channel 3 with privacy code 15 - any combo would do of course - and we do sometimes hear other folks, but on the water particularly the chance of interference seems remote. The main thing to me is to avoid the INAPPROPRIATE use of the VHF channels for the idle chit chat we all engage in while cruising.

[DaveS]

Pat,
We've carried FRS radios on the 16' and still carry them on the 22' Sea Shift. If traveling with another vessel that has no radios at all we've handed one of them off to them so we could communicate with each other. We also use them when we dock at different communities so we can browse around town and experience some independence in our time on shore. I've also used them successfully with buddies at sportsman's shows, boat shows etc. They are certainly handy little items to pack around.

Our choice of channel is a bit different from yours, however I'm certainly willing to be flexible and switch to 315.

(Now for the story on our channel selection....when our daughter Jessica was in pre-school the teacher went around the classroom asking all the kids what phone number they dial when they want to reach their parents. Jessica said, "When I want my daddy I call 911"......needless to say our family uses channel 911 on our FRS radios).

[Silverback]

The radios you can buy at most places now have FRS and GMRS channels. 1-14 are FRS and channels 15 to 22 are GMRS. The GMRS channels use more power that the FRS and have greater range. The last set I bought have an advertised range of 40 km, but I think a few miles is the practical limit and then they don't do so well when you have hills or buildings in the way. But using a GMRS channel should give you at least a couple of miles over water. Mine are Motorola and were purchased at Costco in BC for about 60 dollars. Another plus is that you can use either the supplied rechargeable batteries (NiMH) or use standard AA batteries (3 per radio).

Bill

[Pat Anderson]

The Cobras at $30 a pair at buy.com are half the price of the Motorolas apparently, and can also use AAA alkaline or rechargeables - ours take four batteries rather than three. The ordinary alkalines from Ikea or Costco are cheap and last quite a long time actually. The new lithium ion rechargeables are about $25 for an eight pack, charge up in half an hour in a "fast" charger, and take about 1,000 recharges. So the rechargeables are probably the way to to, I just need to pick up some AAAs - am using the lithium ion rechargeable AAs in my Icom handheld VHF, changed out the nicads that it came with because of the charge memory issue associated with nicads.

[thataway]

Just a reminder that if you transmit on the GMRS frequencies you are susposed to have a FCC license. Most of the combination FRS and GMRS radios are 500 milliwatts, and I suspect that the license reqirement is not enforced because of the low range. But if by chance you have one of the radios which has higher power--5 watts, and in some cases 50 watts, the fine for transmitting on these frequencies is $10,000! Also the FRS/ GMRS frequencies are valid in the US and I believe Canada, but not so in many other countries and I believe they are not legal in Mexico. We were sailing along with another boat, who transmitted on a 2 meter channel in Yugoslovia and had both his boat and all radio gear impounded. He got the boat back after a court hearing, but the government kept all of his radio gear.

[Pat Anderson]

This is a very valid observation - with the millions of FRS / GMRS capable units sold at Wal Mart, Target and Costco, the licensing requirement is simply unenforceable, as was the prior requirement for CB radios. That doesn't mean that you couldn't get tagged! And the 2 meter story is scary - I have always assumed the ham radio privileges were generally reciprocal, but obviously that is NOT a justified assumption! So far, my operation abroad has been limited to Canada, with which we do have reciprocity. Guess I won't take a handheld to Yugoslavia (or whatever it is called these days)!

Pat, KD7OAC

[thataway]

Although there is the international convention on allocation of radio frequencies, this does not always hold true for amature radio frequencies.
Ham radio reciprocity is automatic in Canada, with the US, but that is about the only country. For example for the Bahamas you have to get a recpricol license from Bartel by mail, in Mexico from CoFeTel/SCT. I have always driven to Tijuna to get my XE prefix. Other countries have various proceedures, but it is far from automatic.

In the case in what was then Yugoslovia, the 2 meter frequencies were used by the military, and this was a major federal offense. The boater had just assumed that because it was a VHF frequency that it would not be noted--wrong! He was near a Navy base.