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captd



Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 514
City/Region: Chain of Lakes
State or Province: MT
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kon Tiki
Photos: Hunky Dory
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Night Cruising Reply with quote

Sometime, sooner or later a boater is going to be forced to travel at night. I am interested in what takes place in your head when darkness decends out in the blue or on the intercoastal.
I know my 1st expeirience was leaving an anchorage at West End, Bahamas. Instead of just using the compass and or plotters, ETC. I tried to see my way out and around a point. It was black and a little hazy. Using a spot light made it seem like I was looking at the sea wall. It totally screwed my mind up and by thinking I was avoiding a sea wall and the rocks I ended up in the worst heading. My wife could hear the water hitting the rocks and said I was off course. I quit looking out the window and put my trust in the instruments. Made the corrections and got out into the open sea.
After a few years and other situations, like once running back into a Mexican port ( Rincon ) We were 50 miles out in the Pacific, the Hunky Dory and a Tom Cat were headed for home as it was getting dark. Just before dark I seen the tom cat off to my starboard passing us up , I mentioned to my fishing partner, " He will be home hours before us". An hour or two later I could see a red port light off to my port side way off in the distance. The Boat was heading back out to sea. I hailed the boat on the VHF and it turned out to be the Tom Cat. He replied : where in the %^$#@ are you? I said look to your port you should see our green running lights. He still could not see us. We flashed the spot light at him. Finally he seen the light. He followed us in. He said all his brand new equipment quit on him, Radar,plotter,gps and he was totally lost. Compass and all. He had been cruising by the seat of his pants in a panic and would have run around out in the pacific untill he would run out of gas.

It happens quite often when lost anywhere, mountains, deep woods, or at sea, that a person won't believe their compass. Night or day. It can happen , a person does'nt know which end is up. I think it happened to Kennedy in his air plane.

When it is pitch black out there trust the technology.
I would be interested in other peoples learning exp.

Captd

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100 ton Master
1986 Sport Craft 27 ft , 240 hrs Yanmar sold
2000 22 ft C-Dory (Hunky Dory) sold 2006
2007 25 R Ranger (Mis Dee) sold 2008
2009 25 R Ranger (Lucky Fin) sold
1994 22 ft C-Dory ( Kon Tiki )
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flagold



Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 951
City/Region: Abbeville
State or Province: AL
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Dawg-E
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it will teach anything, but this is how I do night work on film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gra0NJp2AH4



I have many many hours of night flying in tailwheel aircraft, and the main thing is to have your head ready, everything in the way of charts close at hand, and all equipment ready, before entering night operations, boat or airplane. I also have a set of those laminated lighting guides that goes on the dash anytime I'm operating at night.

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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CaptD,

In IFR flight training, you are taught to trust your equipment... but, crosscheck. However, with flying there is an entire system designed to guide you through instrument conditions, including Air Traffic Control. We don't often boat at night with the C-Dory, but when we do I keep the speed down, drop the light level on the electronics, and use them. Two GPSs with chartplotters and radar certainly help. I also keep an eye on the compass and Joan follows along with the chart (unless we are in our home waters). It's really nice to have two sets of eyes looking out. Lighted nav aids can get lost in background lights and perspective can be confusing, so it's good to have some dialog ("The next marker should be ...").

Along the ICW in our part of the world, there is plenty of water to both sides, but it is shallow, with only the channel dredged; often there are only markers on one side (5 greens for every red), and most of them aren't lit. A hand-held spotlight helps, and it's important to maintain a correct track.

Fortunately with a boat (especially as compared to an airplane), you can slow down or stop to regain your bearings. Cool

Best wishes,
Jim B.

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CD-25 "Wild Blue" (sold August 2014)
http://captnjim.blogspot.com/

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commander bill



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 50
City/Region: Centre
State or Province: AL
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: LenaBell
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

30 years ago I drove Nuclear Submarines for a living. They weighed 8000 tons and drew over 30 feet of water. My eyes were 20-20 with good night vision. We had plenty of 1960's technology (no gps, etc) but we had several trained watchstanders but my pucker factor was always high when on surface at night (we always felt much better submerged). Bouys & Nav aids were better then. The reliability of radar & other technology on our boats today is better than we had then. That said with my current vision I think I will just stay tied up until next light.
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Sneaks



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
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City/Region: San Diego (Encinitas)
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C-Dory Year: 1993
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Vessel Name: C-Brat
Photos: Jenny B and C-Brat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cruising at night isn't much different than fishing very early AM from the stern at anchor then suddenly finding/feeling yourself in a heavy fog that rolled in behind you. Happened once (only once) in a 23 ft. boat with only charts and a compass to find my way back to the harbor entrance. (Mission Bay, San Diego.) Thank god for Lindberg Field's flight path, the entrance bell bouy and the Ocean Beach pier or I'd have been making like a surfer.

No thankyew.

Today I have a complete set of nav gear with radar/GPS and a completely independent GPS just to keep from ever pinching buttonholes in my skivvies again...! And that includes compass/paper charts.

If we must travel at night (and we have), I now worry more about clueless (or drunk) dummies going full bore around the bay using shoreline lights for navigation. It's pretty easy to not "see" a C-22 under those conditions. We choose to displacement cruise at night or in a fog, with a hand on the throttle and every eye on the boat concentrating on where we will be and where we've been, plus where they might be....

Don

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"Jenny B" 2005 C-22/F75 sold, Oct. 2008
"C-Brat" 1993 C-16 angler/50 hp
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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City/Region: Valley Centre
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C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love being out on the ocean at night. That's when the plankton well up and you see the big luminescent pool. Sailing through them is a thrill. When we were coming down the coast, we'd sail through flocks of ducks which had settled for the night; they'd fly off in all directions, squawking. And also, since one would stand several shifts at night, you could see the stars rotate around the North pole (I know, the earth turns.) And I've seen the Southern Cross rotate around Canopus, one of the thrills of my life. And coming down past Oregon, you'd see the nav light markers come up and disappear, the glow of the towns pass. Absolutely wonderful. And since the Pacific is cold and you're out in the cockpit, you'd freeze your ass off. But worth it. And following the kelp beds around Pt. Loma, and the channel markers into San Diego, just before daybreak was always a thrill.

Now, if you're takling about not being able to see, as in fog, well being caught out in that stuff sold me my first Loran, and really taught me to read the radar. Without some sort of instruments, you're lost.

Boris
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matt_unique



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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City/Region: Boston
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Night Reply with quote

I spend more time underway at night than I do during the day. If you're cruising into an unfamiliar area it's all about careful planning, trusting your instruments, and having backup gear/plans. If you're following your GPS, take a compass reading every few minutes in case your electronics go out for example. If you're cruising near your usual stomping grounds it's about getting familiar with night visible landmarks. Bridge lights, other unique lit buildings, the nav buoys with lights, etc. Plan a route back to your slip/mooring during the day. For example, say you need to keep to the right of the center bridge light until you reach a certain point before you can turn to port to stay in the channel and clear the ledge, etc.

Once I was crossing the Block Island Sound in unreal fog (during the day but the same concepts apply). My GPS indicated we had arrived at Old Harbor Block Island but we could see nothing but the fog. I knew we were there and had just a short bit to go following the same heading and we would be behind the break water. I was able to reassure my passenger that we were there because we could smell the restaurants at Old Harbor. Ha ha! So sense of smell is sometimes a navigation aid.

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Former owner of Napoleon (Tomcat) Hull #65 w/Counter Rotating Suzuki 150's.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Soldotna
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Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Dark or Fog one has to trust the Insturments. No matter how far off I know the(in my mind)compass heading is I have learned to trust it! Radar has been a big help, being able to see that 2'dia log in the pitch black or fog is nice or the Island that is moving(Cruise ship) Mr. Green Beer
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
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C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Night Cruising Reply with quote

captd wrote:
Sometime, sooner or later a boater is going to be forced to travel at night. I am interested in what takes place in your head when darkness decends out in the blue or on the intercoastal.
[stuff clipped]

Captd


What goes through the head in pitch black-no moon or artificial light is the same thing as cruising anytime near shore in areas with multiple reefs with medium fog and that's I sure hope all these electronic instruments don't quit cause if they do we're in deep do do. Actually in either case if you don't panic, know how to use and have a compass and go slow with a little luck it should be ok.

The only enjoyable cruising we have done at night is with a full moon and that really doesn't count to me as dark. Same thing as leaving very early morning or making destination just before real dark.

On our last cruise we were in the real dark only once and that was coming up Lisianski Inlet to Pelican, Alaska. That was due to choice of staying in small cove or making it into Pelican with a storm coming. Was absolutely no problem with instruments and with going slow wasn't even to concerned about debris in the water.

Fog is to me much worse than night. You know when its going to be dark. Fog can really hit unexpected. Other than our experience in Fords Terror two of our most hazardous times came with the fog. In 2004 after losing our computer nobletec navigation at Fords Terror. we continued to cruise with only a small hand held e-map gps. Just as we started to come around Cape Fenshaw on Fredrick Sound thickfog settled around us. This area has reefs and is generally rough with the currents and a little wind. Charts and eyes to avoid these reefs really help too keep out of trouble. Fortunately we had the radar and with the gps to give us an accurate position on the paper charts we made it without anything more than a little raise in blood pressure. The worst was this year when the fog caught us entering Tracy Arm Inlet with current and ice. This is a link to a short video of that experience which I transferred from our travelogue of this years cruise and is written up in the Grand Adventure Forum as "2007 Alaska Northern Inland Passage Wilderness cruise". There are 30 other short videos included in that travelogue.

video Fog and Ice holkham Bay Tracy Arm Cove

Jay

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CW



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 306
City/Region: Kalama
State or Province: WA
Vessel Name: Satisfaction
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Night boating on the Columbia River is fun and necessary when the goal is to be the first fisherman to anchor within a certain spot timed to the tide, dawn and other competitive fishermen. Here it is the ships and the wing-dams to watch out for as there are few rocks (mostly sand). With a thick hulled aluminum jet sled, speed is your friend as it reduces your draft to a mere 4-6" and debris become less an issue. It is similar to travelling by foot down a steep, muddy slope -- sometimes it is safer to run than to try and walk slowly. Still, I believe in redundant systems (2 GPSs, 2 VHFs, 2 compasses, charts and chart books, back-up kicker engine already warmed up at the dock, 2 batteries).

Thrilling though it is, I look forward to getting my C-Dory and adjusting perspectives. Radar, no doubt, will be required as I shift to more ocean fishing & crabbing. Navigating in the fog in the Graveyard of the Pacific (the bar at the mouth of Columbia) is enough to pucker up anybody, especially when you can hear the breakers slamming into the jetties while in standing waves taller than your boat, shallow Clatsop Spit on the right and the crowded shipping lane on your left. I look forward to asking you all much more about these things soon.

Darkness really messes with people's minds though, especially in the wilderness mountains. I was amazed how many athletic, young men were scared of the dark when I was in the infantry, despite their maps, food, radios, adequate clothing and machine guns. Mainly city kids. Every few weeks, day-hikers in the Cascades get missoriented, it gets towards dark and they panic, using up valuable energy ineffectively and inevitably worsening their chances of survival. Darkness does not kill (nor wild animals or boogie men - often). It is Hypothermia and falls. These can be avoided by carrying a light daypack with a quality poncho, a down vest, matches, lighter, a little cedar, a can of Beanie Weenies, a stocking hat, some beef jerky, a contour map, canteen of water, charged cellphone, wool or polypropylene clothing next to the skin, & compass. Ignore the dark. Do not focus on home, how dangerous the situation is, the warm truck, the rain, how stupid you were to get into this situation, how upset your wife might be or how far you think you have to go. Go ahead and pause, sit, drink water and eat something. Your brain is your greatest tool -- use it and inventory your resources. Look at the map and get oriented. Then move slowly and methodically in the right direction maybe towards a road or trail that is easier to find than specifically your truck. It may be farther overall, but still preferable. When the terrain gets too steep or too deep (swamps or snow), recognize it and turn around and detour around the problem area before you get stuck or pinned to an exposed area only to weaken and have fewer options. Take comfort in knowing that, though moving slowly, you only need to do this for a few hours (not all night) and then you'll be out. If not up to night travel, shelter up and wait for light and then head out or get a fire going and wait for help. Avoid spraining an ankle, and it will carry you, avoid getting needlessly wet and your clothes will keep you warm. Consider each obstacle to get through with short term goals and you won't become overwhelmed. Take each portion as it comes and eventually, you'll break out onto that trail or road.

The wilderness of panic is much more dangerous than any mountains we have, and I believe the same approach applies to our waters. C.W.

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ccflyer



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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City/Region: Bradenton, FL
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything in JamesTXSD's post but would note, when I'm flying at night, I don't have to worry about hitting any flotsam - jetsam - lobster buoys etc. So I'd add to take it slow and keep your insurance premiums up to date. Thumbs Up
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ccflyer wrote:
I agree with everything in JamesTXSD's post but would note, when I'm flying at night, I don't have to worry about hitting any flotsam - jetsam - lobster buoys etc. So I'd add to take it slow and keep your insurance premiums up to date. Thumbs Up


No, it's those "big, dark, areas" Shocked ... IFR at night was disconcerting early on, because there was very little sense of movement. Joan wasn't too crazy about it when I'd flip on the "wing light" (a small light that would illuminate the leading edge of the wings so you could see if there was any ice build up). Most of our flying was high and fast. With VFR conditions at night, you could see city lights from 75 miles out. The most magical flying I ever did was at night, with a full moon, clear conditions, and a fresh snowfall. Still, unlike the boat, you can't just pull back the throttle to sort things out.

There are many things about flying and sailing/boating that are similar. Proper preparation for low visual conditions is important, as is maintaining your night vision. Still, I think flying at night was easier because airports are well defined by the rotating beacon, there are instrument procedures that lead you right to where you are going. At a controlled airport, you can ask the tower to bring up the lights and turn on the "rabbit" - no question about the right way in. At an uncontrolled airport, you can generally turn up the runway lights by clicking the mike. And there is almost always some separation between the runway environment lights and the surrounding city lights. You don't get all that "help" when on the water.

But, just try to toss out an anchor with an airplane! Mr. Green
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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City/Region: Valley Centre
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HunkyDory/Jay, finally got your video to play. It was neat. We spent a night in that cove, and watched the bergs come in and out. Real fun, glad to see you left.

But that leaves the burning question: what made one of the engines quit?

Boris
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris

Didn't get the answer to what caused that engine to quit untill we arrived back home and called EQ to find out what caused the same moter to have the crankcase fill up with gas and overflow out the dip stick when checking the oil level in Auke Bay. They told us the problem was a stuck thermostat and they were right. I think with the stuck thermostat and the engine running cold when I throttled back to meet the rough water it died. Believe that its dieing their was our first indication of a stuck thermostat. Had problems with it at idle the remainder of trip back to Skagway. In fact ran the 85 miles from Auke Bay to Skagway going up the Lynn Canal on one moter due to not wanting to take a chance on doing it damage.

When that moter died where it did the pucker factor definitely rose dramatically. We were already nervous enough with the conditions as they were.

After changing the thermostat and quite a few hours running at 80% max rpm the moter is doing fine at speed and idle. EQ said they didn't think I had hurt it and they were right.

Jay
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captd



Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Chain of Lakes
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C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kon Tiki
Photos: Hunky Dory
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the beginning post, I neglected to say, Upon returning to Rincon, we found nothing wrong with any of his equipment. He had the best money could buy, he just had panic and could not concentrate and believe his instruments.

I think he sold his boat.

captd
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