rubrail coming loose

[jimcinfra]

Thanks for the replies.

The machine screw w/lock nut method is the way I will go.

I mentioned the sealant not to attach the rub rail, but to fill the seam between the top half and bottom half of the boat which is hidden behind the rub rail. I have a gap of 1/16" where the molded halves are joined. Is this gap normal?

[Sea Wolf]

[Roy and Lucky]

While repairing my rub-rails I found the same gap you seem to have on the starboard side only mine's about an eighth of an inch wide.
I repaired the port side without completely removing the aluminum but looking between the rail and the hull, I didn't notice any gap. It apeared to be all finished gel-coat. The starboard side has loose, raw fiberglass fibers coming out of it.
I think I'll remove the aluminum completely from the starboard side and see what the H---'s going on.

[Roy and Lucky]

I'm trying to post some pictures of the above problem but I'm dense as a post. Can someone please assist? Thanks[/img]

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Roy and Lucky,

Here's a thread from the Nerd Shack that has a lot of info on posting pictures. I didn't peruse it, but it probably has info for both Windows and Mac.

Steve

[Roy and Lucky]

Thank you Steve. I've pm'd Bill for a photo album.

[Roy and Lucky]

Let's try it this way for now. Here's link to my Snapfish album. Hope it works.

http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=242763703/a=47853172_47853172/t_=47853172

[Roy and Lucky]

How much sleep should I lose worrying about that open crack? It wasn't obvious on the port side. The pictures are a good representation of the entire starboard side of C-Dory. Any ideas as to the best fix? Planning on a three week trip to Lake Powell on the 5th of September so I need to fix this quickly.

[Roy and Lucky]

Password is cdory1

[Sea Wolf]

[Roy and Lucky]

Joe ~

Thank you for your reply; your input is always valuable.

I've never noticed water leaking on the inside of the cabin. The inside fiberglass joint between the hull and the cabin appears to be intact, with no separation. Now that the panic has passed, and I'm somewhat rational , a better description of the problem would be a 1/4" wide gap on the outside of the seam between the hull and the cabin that appears to be only as thick as the gel coat. There appears to be no damage caused by water intrusion in this open seam. I guess my 2 questions are:

1. Do I need to be concerned about damage due to water intrusion (the boat is a 2000 with no apparent structural damage to date, and I don't have to worry about freezing temperatures where I live)?

2. If the open seam is just an aesthetic issue due to some slacker taking a long break on a Monday morning and just covering the open seam with the rubrail, what's the proper fix? Marine structural filler? Gel paste? Bubble gum? Or just reinstall the rubrail as is and take a long break?

I believe you answered these questions and again I always value your input.

Thank you very, very much.

Roy

[thataway]

Examining Roy's photos shows a common problem. The Aluminum pop rivets were not backed with washers and were put into thin glass, which is just at the seam of the upper deck and hull molds. This per say is not a problem, as long as the inner glass (which Larry H found was going to be 70 oz glass in the newer shoe box construction). But it is not clear that there is 70 oz of mat/roving or biaxial cloth on the inside of Roy's boat.

The boat is not going to fall apart (assuning it is glassed well on the inside--but this is a secondary polyester bond). Gel coat is not adequate to fill this void. It has no structural strength. A mish mash of epoxy and mill fiber would be my first choice, with some grinding out of the joint in a "v" fashion--perhaps slightly better would be a grinding down to a feather edge and glassing with layers of cloth and epoxy--that would be the strongest (all under the thin area covered by the aluminum extrusion which holds the rub rail.

Consider that in the C Dories that the pop rivets only hold the cosmetic rub rail, and are not structural as they are in many boats. Now....as Joe notes, Monel pop Rivets are appropiate--and they should have a washer on the inside (do not allow just the expansion in the glass to hold this type of structure--it is not strong enough--and most builders do not use this critical washer. (It takes two people to do this technique--and is more difficult in blind areas--plus may be slightly more difficult to seal and cover. If I was retrofitting the railing in Roy's boat, I would use Monel rivets, with monel or SS washer on the inside--and then cover the inside with an epoxy putty tinted to match the inside of the hull, after grinding down any protursion beyond the washer on the inside of the hull. I probably would have put a small dab of 5200 on the pop rivet on as inserted and on the outside under the "rubber" rub rail. (Also a thin amount of 5200 to fill any void between the extrusion and hul if necessary.)

[SeaSpray]

I am also having a problem with the rub rail opening a gap. Has anyone contacted the new owners to see if they will cover the rubrail problems? Does this come under the hull warranty?

I will probably wind up fixing it myself. Are there any other pictures where others have done the repair?

Thanks,
Steve

[Tad and Toby Jackson]

Since we purchase the Comfy Dory over a year ago, I had begun to notice the rub rail separating from the boat hull in several places. The boat is a 1995 so, it has has many years of usage and probably run-ins with docks and pilings. Admittedly, some of those bumps were done by me. I decided to see how everything was put together a few weeks ago and here is what I found: I removed the rubber rail insert and it was quite clear what was happening. The washer like heads of the aluminum rivets were for the most part corroded off and were laying in the aluminum track of the rub rail. I proceeded to drill out the rest of the rivet caps with a larger drill bit than the rivet shaft and then pulled the entire rail off. This left the stubs of the rivets still sticking out about 3/8" or so. Some of the stubs still had the flairing pin inside the shaft, so drilling the rivets stubs out would have been too difficult, so I devised another method after trying just to tap the rivet back into the hole to allow removal. On the inside of the hull where the rivets had been flared, a lump of 5200 I assume, had been put over the sharp flared end of the rivet and then the splatter coat had been applied over that so that all you see is a lump. Trying to tap the rivet shaft back into the boat created a jagged hole in the 5200, so I developed a different way. I took a piece of thin walled pipe that was actually a SS towel bar that was 5/8" diameter. It had very thin walls and was sharp on the open end. I cut about an 8" piece of that off the pipe and from the inside, I placed the end over the middle of the 5200 lump and tapped with a hammer until I had reached something solid. I then tapped the rivet stub from the outside which pushed out a nice even plug from the inside. I was able to get to most of the rivets on the inside, but those that were blocked I either just tapped them through and trimmed the jagged 5200 into a reasonably round hole or in some cases, I drilled out the center of the rivet to leave a small hole in the 5200 lump.
After I had removed all 52 rivets from each side, I sanded the rough, sharp edges of the fiberglass on the outside where the top and bottom half of the boat are joined together. There was about an 1/8" gap between top and bottom, but I did not fill that as it seemed tight and waterproof. Then cleaned the whole area. I also cleaned the aluminum rub rail and the rubber insert. This was the end of the job that could be done with only one person. I enlisted my brother for help with the re-installation.
Re-installation of the rail was done with #8-32 x 1" SS Oval head machine screws with 1" fender washers and nyloc nuts. I used the #8 size screw because it fit perfectly into the countersunk holes through the rail. We started from the aft end of the boat while letting the front end of the rail lay on a ladder at near the height that it would be installed. From the outside, I put the thin tip of a tube of 4200 into the hole as far as I could and then squeezed caulk until my brother could see it coming through the hole on the inside. I then backed the caulk tube out of the hole while squeezing more caulk into the space between the hull and the bottom of the rail. I then pushed the screw into the hole through the caulk and my brother put the washer and nut on. We would do about 10 or so holes at a time and then come back and tighten up the nuts. It took us about 2 hours for each side and we got better at it as we went along. We did have to use 1 1/2" screws for the holes that were nearest the bow as the fiberglass/resin was thicker there. The rubber rail was easy to re-insert using a regular screen rolling tool. We also used longer screws on each end of the rail where the rubber meets the end cap and screwed the last screw through the rubber rail and end cap because the rubber rail had begun to creep back from the end cap leaving a gap in the rubber.
All in all, I am very happy with how tight the rail is against the boat. I have two decisions to make now. #1: should I apply a bead of silicone to the top and/or bottom of the rail for extra protection? #2: should I put a dab/glob of 4200 or 5200 over the nut and washer on the inside?

Hopefully, I will be posting pictures of this project into our album over the weekend.

Tad and Toby on the Comfy Dory

[YACD]

Thanks for this excellent piece of technical writing! Why bother with pictures