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pcguy2u
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
City/Region: Bodega Bay
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1997
Vessel Name: "No Dory" - a long story
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: Open Ocean Suitability |
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Greetings to all you C-Brats from Bodega Bay CA,
As I have posted elsewhere in these forums, we are looking for a CD 22 and have had some discussion with local boat owners here about the quest and the CD choice.
More than once, I have heard about why you would not find a CD suitable for the open ocean.
Would really like to here about how rocky these boats really are???
I'm not what you would characterize as a "sea-faring" type and would never take the boat outside the harbor except on a very flat day. I do get seasick in high seas - a fair weather sailor, eh. 
TIA, Nick |
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Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Nick, depends on the sea conditions and where you are! Lots of folks go 20-30 miles out but don't go if it's real rough.
As a young sailor said to me at the rail on our destroyer one day,
"Weak Stomach?? Hell no sir, I'm throwing it as far as anyone!! 
I've been out in the Bay here when we've had 6-8' seas, very uncomfortable and you can't go fast but I never felt unsafe. I don't get seasick either, thank goodness! 
Charlie
_________________
CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA |
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RJD Wannabe
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 244
City/Region: Elk Grove
State or Province: CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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For seasickness: Nothing touches the Transderm Scope skin patch. It does require a prescription, and placement the night before. But magnificent, especially the "second generation" patches. A huge improvement, will knock down some fairly rough days. I've used them for several years, no more hurling at the rail (aka chumming), or time in the bunk. Can't say enough good about them, a steal at about $7 each (or $50 in Cabo at the fishing shacks).
Good luck on the boat, I'm curious as to the responses as I'm contemplating the same boat options.
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Soon to join C-Dory owners |
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Jazzmanic
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2231
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
Photos: C-Dancer
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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pcguy2u,
I'm not sure where you read this: | pcguy2u wrote: | | More than once, I have heard about why you would not find a CD suitable for the open ocean |
There are many CD22 owners who go out into the open ocean. I've been out there with one of the owners who goes out to Neah Bay every summer, Roberbum. The CD22 is very seaworthy and because of the flat bottom, is very stable out there. The day I went out with Roger, there were huge swells but it was fairly smooth on top so the ride was smooth, felt just like a roller coaster going up and down those big swells. Once we got out to the open ocean, it was quite foggy but we had a very successful day of salmon fishing. In fact, Roger is organizing a gathering at Neah Bay this coming August.
So the answer is, the boat can definitely handle it. It all depends on whether the crew is up to it.  And of course, as Charlie says, it depends on the sea conditions.
Peter
C-Dancer
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Peter & Caryn
C-Dancer - 2005 22' Cruiser 2005-2017
Island Time - 2018 Ranger Tug 23 2017-2022
Email: pjamero@gmail.com |
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pcguy2u
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
City/Region: Bodega Bay
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1997
Vessel Name: "No Dory" - a long story
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jazzmanic wrote: |
I'm not sure where you read this:
Peter
C-Dancer |
I don't recall reading it anywhere, but I have heard the same thing from 3 locals in the harbor. 
I am clear that the boats can handle the open ocean in a variety of conditions - my question is more like, are the CD more prone to rolling and rocking due to the flat bottom (no V-hull to speak of).
Thanks again,
Nick |
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lloyds
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1724
City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| A little less prone in my opinion. Our 16 is a little quick on movement in some conditions but so were my whalers. I have been out 20 miles a couple times and I consider that a safe range in good conditions. |
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pcguy2u
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
City/Region: Bodega Bay
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1997
Vessel Name: "No Dory" - a long story
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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BTW, I did search the entire site looking for a discussion on this subject - if I missed one please let me know............  |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2720
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Open Ocean Suitability |
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| pcguy2u wrote: | Greetings to all you C-Brats from Bodega Bay CA,
As I have posted elsewhere in these forums, we are looking for a CD 22 and have had some discussion with local boat owners here about the quest and the CD choice.
More than once, I have heard about why you would not find a CD suitable for the open ocean.
Would really like to here about how rocky these boats really are???
I'm not what you would characterize as a "sea-faring" type and would never take the boat outside the harbor except on a very flat day. I do get seasick in high seas - a fair weather sailor, eh.
TIA, Nick |
Nick----Think you need to find someone in your area that has one and will take you out in moderate weather. Am personally not that knowledgeable on open ocean, but with the little experience I have had and what Ive garnished from this site, I think your choice gets pretty limited on a better 22' power boat for any sea conditions unless higher speed is major factor.
Jay
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Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers |
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timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 546
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| pcguy2u wrote: | | ...my question is more like, are the CD more prone to rolling and rocking due to the flat bottom (no V-hull to speak of). |
A flat hull should be slightly more stable than a V, but they'll both roll around in response to the waves. That's just what you get with any boat lacking a deep sailboat-style keel.
What people may be refering to is the fact that a lightweight, flat dory-type hull will tend to pound in any significant chop. The solution: we just slow down in those conditions. We can plane at 12 knots or so, so we have a whole range of velocities from which to select.
A deep-V can go slow (hull speed, say 7 knots for boats in this size range) or go fast, but it doesn't go medium-fast very well. It just digs a deeper trench and burns more fuel until it gets up onto a plane.
But wait: A deep-V can "cut" through chop a lot better, so it can keep going fast in rougher water than a C-Dory could. Plus they generally go faster than a C-Dory anyway, because they tend to be equipped with at least twice the horsepower of a similar-sized C-Dory. They need that power to get up on plane.
So one argument against taking the C-Dory into the ocean would go like this: "If the conditions start to deteriorate, you may need to get inshore fast, and that will be easier in a deep-V with 300 hp than it will in a flat C-Dory with 115 hp." I'd suggest that this is a valid argument. It doesn't mean you can't take a C-Dory out, it means you need to be a little more vigilant about the weather forecast and your run-for-cover plan.
Hope this helps.
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Timothy R. R. Flanagan |
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pcguy2u
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
City/Region: Bodega Bay
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1997
Vessel Name: "No Dory" - a long story
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Timothy, great depiction of the situation - very helpful.
Many thanks,
Nick  |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2720
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| timflan wrote: | | pcguy2u wrote: | | ...my question is more like, are the CD more prone to rolling and rocking due to the flat bottom (no V-hull to speak of). |
(stuff clipped)
So one argument against taking the C-Dory into the ocean would go like this: "If the conditions start to deteriorate, you may need to get inshore fast, and that will be easier in a deep-V with 300 hp than it will in a flat C-Dory with 115 hp." I'd suggest that this is a valid argument. It doesn't mean you can't take a C-Dory out, it means you need to be a little more vigilant about the weather forecast and your run-for-cover plan.
Hope this helps. |
On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory. |
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pcguy2u
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
City/Region: Bodega Bay
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1997
Vessel Name: "No Dory" - a long story
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Hunkydory wrote: |
On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory. |
Jay, would you help me out with the "now more stable" reference?
thx |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1820
City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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pcguy,
All the C-Dories will roll more than a deep V the closer to parallel to the waves you go. However, it is rarely a good idea to run any craft parallel to the wave pattern - especially not in a stormy sea. Also, the deep V and displacement types tend to bob and roll and gee and haw with each passing wave when you are not on a plane. i.e., they "wallow".
The flatter, C-Dory hull can more quickly change position since it does not grab hold deep into the waves, which gives you lots of choices on how to handle each coming wave. You have more "agility".
If it gets really tough, you tack into or with the waves and jockey for best effect at the crest of each. In a deep "V" you are welded to the water - no quick jockeying for position there.
John
Last edited by drjohn71a on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jazzmanic
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2231
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
Photos: C-Dancer
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| hunkydory wrote: | | On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory. |
This is the exact situation which happened during the Anacortes Salmon Derby. I heard that the deep-V fishing boats were very envious of the very sea-worthy C-Dory's in steep, sloppy +8 foot seas. The deep-V's were having a very tough time at hull speed and were definitely rolling from side-to-side much more than the C-Dory's were. Don't misunderstand me however, I was out in that stuff too and it was scary. But the boat performed like a champ. As long as I worked the throttle correctly, the boat kept bobbing up and over those steep and sloppy waves. (On edit) I just read Dr. John's post. Very well stated.
As Timflan stated so well, if you want to get out to the fish quickly, and get back to port quickly out in the open ocean, the deep-v's are well-equipped to handle that. But then again, they also suck up fuel. Each boat has its strengths and weaknesses, it all depends on how you plan to use it.
Peter |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2720
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| pcguy2u wrote: | | Hunkydory wrote: |
On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory. |
Jay, would you help me out with the "now more stable" reference?
thx |
Yep--- Explained very well by what Peter and John said.
I have two friends Erik and Al who frequently fish out of Bodega Bay on a 24' Osprey. If they wern't one of the three who told you a c-dory is not so good for open ocean, they would if you talked to them.
Jay |
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