GPS Chartplotters - How big a Screen?

[Captains Cat]

Mr NANTUCKET: Les beat me to it...

Ever tried to take a star sight or get a noon shot at the sun from a 22ft boat? Ever get out of sight of land or some other fixed navigation object?

Even within sight of land, if the viz goes away, you still need to find that nav aid. DR in a 22 ft boat with the (usually) short distances we travel is notably unreliable.

Having done this from carriers and destroyers both ways, I am not advocating throwing Dutton's over the side. It's a valuable learning tool and every small boater should study and learn from it, just like some of us learned the calculus of variations and other stuff we don't actively use.

There's no substitute for looking out the windows! That's why the OOD Underway goes, personally, out to the starboard or port bridge wing prior to executing a turn in that direction! There's also no substitute (today) for having a little display right in front of your nose that shows, within a few meters, where you are on a given chart!

Happy Boating!

[B~C]

you missed an important point Less, those electrical goodies add a great deal to the overall fun factor for many boaters.

[Les Lampman]

Ok Kenn...that's one 's'!

[B~C]

you mean more isn't betterr? I'll get it right in the future

[ffheap]

Les,

This is the great thing about discussions. I understand your answer, but, I still maintain that all this electronic stuff is great, except as I said before,

1. When we rely to upon the electronic stuff, when the lights go out, will we be able to Navigate?

2. When we are Navigating in a congested area, It is best to keep our eyes on the other boats than possibily being distracted with all the electronic gear we can now buy for our boats. Better to maintain a proper lookout at all times.

That is my point.

Also, if you look at many of the 22 C-dory "cockpits" the view of the outside areas are effected. There is not enough room to put all the electronic gear we wish to use in that small space. Also there is not enough room to put the second body to help us, if the stuff is put in places where we can use it best when we are alone. I am refering to the Chart Plotter and Radar screens. When we start to concentrate on the screens, we may miss on something important outside the boat that can cause problems, like SeaRays

I am talking from experience. On the first day out in Nantucket in 2002, I was trying to use my radio for a radio check. I took my eye and mind off a Bouy that was 45 Degrees to port. The next thing I knew, I side swiped the bouy. The current was a lot stronger than I anticipated.

As for Auto Pilots. Yes, they could make a difference if we operate alone, but, reliance in a congested area could cause the same problem. Kind of using cruise control and creeping up on the car ahead.

That is my point. It is also the point of the USCG. We have to maintain a proper lookout. Remember that we do not know if the other guy (or Gal) knows what they are doing. I have taught enough Safe Boating Courses, been on enough patrols, and made enough Vessel Exams to be SCARED of the unknown operator of the other boats.

MAN-FROM-NANTUCKET

[Larry H]

Good Morning all,

Man form Nantucket has a good point. I learned navigation the Coast Guard way, chart and compass. I do use a GPS, but only for waypoints, I don't have a chart plotter.

When I put the boat on a course, I compare the magnetic compass to the GPS course and then compare the visual line of sight to whatever is dead ahead(mountains, islands, bouys, etc.)

Navigation occurs in the mind of the helmsman. If all you know is that the arrow or pointer on the chart plotter is in the right place, you don't have a connection to the real world.

While helming I compare what I see outside with the chart, compass course, course made good(from the GPS), distance to go to the waypoint, and speed over the bottom.

I think that too much dependance on the electronics can lead to trouble when they quit.

[Da Nag]

You guys both raise good points. Many folks, myself included, rely on these new electronic doo-dads as our primary navigation devices, regardless of the lawyer-induced warnings that pop up on the screen when powering them up.

Will I change? Heck no, technology this good is meant to be used. Is anyone still navigating by the stars or using a sextant? Times change, and I'm glad to be part of the revolution...

I don't mean to discount the need to have a good understanding of navigation principles, and fully agree training in this area is beneficial regardless of your reliance on electronics. One of my first orders of business once my boat makes it back to CA is to start in with the Power Squadron classes, and get a better understanding of "old school" navigation than what I've read in the books. However, should the lights go out for me, my primary fallback will be yet more modern technology; for under $400, you can pick up any of a number of portable chartplotters that are waterproof and battery powered - I've got a BlueChart capable Garmin 76C on order, and part of my cruising checklist will include two spare sets of fully charged batteries. Cheap insurance.

A couple other observations:

[Sawdust]

Okay fellers,

Tried my best to shut up, but this is my working stuff -- enough to fill three or four normal lifetimes.

I absolutely love the new electronics. They make life easier and safer most of the time. It all comes back to the operator - if you keep your head in the cockpit, you are going to run into something. Guaranteed. Properly installed electronics do not block a view in any direction. BUT - these beautiful toys do quit, and usually when least expected. So down the list we go:

Paper charts. ALWAYS, when you are in strange waters you should have charts aboard, and it is wise to keep a running plot. At minimum I recommend a good cheat sheet. Palms get pretty sweaty when the lights go out - you are in the fog, and don''t have a clue. BTDT many times. Particularly in northern BC or AK water, where the tide range and associated currents are huge - and unfamiliar if you are not a native - it is almost essential that you keep a running plot. Even in good visibility it is very easy to get lost, also BTDT. After many, many trips from Seattle to the Juneau/Icy Straits area, I still keep a "cheat sheet" up to date so that I can quickly go to paper. El and Bill will attest to the need for paper, I'm quite sure.

Auto pilot. It is a great tool and almost lke having a highly qualified helmsperson aboard. If you run a lot in the fog and rain, as I do, it is a big safety factor in your favor. The pilot goes on when I leave the dock and off when I anchor or dock. Being able to maintain a constant heading and a total 360 degree lookout, watch for debris and other boats, without having to worry about being on course or making the next waypoint, certainly takes a lot of pressure off the skipper.

Radar. I've used it, studied it, and taught it, with practically no recess, for about 60 years. If you boat in low visibility with the possibility of meeting other traffic, you should have radar aboard. If you have radar aboard, learn how to use it, and practice in good weather. Somewhere lost in the archives Bill has probably put some of my radar stuff... really just an introduction to Radar, but it does contain a bibliography of excellent learning references.

This is getting too long.

Dusty

[El and Bill]

Dusty --
Yep, we carry paper charts as a backup for almost every place we cruise -- even on the ICW or Lake Mohave -- El and Bill

[Chivita]

Mr. Nantucket, you have brought up a great point in this conversation, nothing can replace an alert watch, as has Bill with his Power Squadron classes, an alert and well trained watch is even better. I wish more people out there cared so seriously and passionately!

I'll confess, I have a 2006 smack dab in front of the old steering wheel. I love how much information I can get from that big old screen with just a quick glance, if Garmin would get off their behinds and design a radar component that would plug into the 2006 I'd be in hog heaven. I love technology and how it has helped me be a safer driver, captain, boss, papa and more. Unfortunately there will always be one thing that can mess it all up, and that's the user, just ask Exxon and the good people of
Alaska. In my experience it is the same as with automobiles, it is always the driver that matters the most!

I'm stuck on the chartplotter, but thanks for reminding me to keep my focus on the water Mr. Nantucket. The last thing I want is to be nicknamed Valdez Dave!

Chivita Dave

[Sawdust]

Mr. Man-from-Nantucket -

As I re-read my post it seems I was not agreeing with you -- not my intent. You are 100 percent right. The nut behind the wheel is the real problem...

I've boated your area in my old high-gaff rigged Herschoff and have many fond memories! It's a beautiful area and one of my favorites. Winter there is not my favorite season!!!

Dusty

[ffheap]

Hi Folks,

This was a great discussion. I learned a lot from you guys. Thanks a lot.

Man-From-Nantucket

[Captains Cat]

Concur with all--- You can't get it from a black box, it's only an aid. It's got be in your head and that came from a book or from your eyes!

Safe boating!

[Jon - CLou]

Recently I purchased the current 2005 version blue chip card for my 182c chartplotter. I noticed that the unit re-draws 2 to 4 times when zooming in or out, mostly in the outer portion of the zoom range. This might of been talked about on this site already, however I couldn't find the information for this particular problem.

I learned from a Garmin support tech that there has been about 6 major revisions to the 182c since I purchased it a couple of years ago. He said that updating the unit itself could take care of the multiple re-draw problem. I also learned from Garmin that a reader card would be needed to extract the current updates for this unit from the Garmin website and this is for free.

Now to figure out how to upload, download or whatever on this reader card. My 8 track tapes are a bit big for the process. Ok, I'm a little behind on electronic technology.

Any help would be appreciated.

Jon

[Captains Cat]

Jon, the garmin download site is

http://www.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=53#

This is specific for the 182 or 182C. There are instructions there. You'll need a cable. Latest version is 5.50. You can see what version you have by powering the unit up, going to the menu tabs and selecting "System". The version will be indicated.

You may have already talked with the Garmin Tech support since you have info, but their number is 1-800-800-1020 and they are very helpful. I did the same thing for my 182C last year and it fixed everything. The new version came out in Jun 2004. I need to do it again.

Good luck..

Charlie