Flotsam and Jetsam

[El and Bill]

Paul's post about winter cruising reminded us about some terminology. A chap, knowing we are boaters, asked us with a smug look on his face, "What's the difference between flotsam and jetsam, and why two words usually used interchangeably?"

Well, we didn't have the foggiest notion. So, deep in the bowels of a bullet scarred hotel in Bosnia, we were poking through Google. Here's what we found (sorta):

In Marine Law (take note, Pat, once again it's the lawyer's fault) flotsam is that stuff that "floats off a sinking or sunken boat." Jetsam, on the other hand, is that stuff that is "jettisoned from a boat, usually one that is sinking."

The legal eagle admitted that today, the words are used by non-lawyers (not in the know) interchangeably so we should probably consider lawsuits to bring the ignorant into line with the superior intellects of the legal world.

Oh, and that leaves an unresolved issue (at least to our ignorant minds). What do lawyers call floating logs and natural debris that litters waterways? OK. Pat. Your turn. The pub awaits your reply ....

[JamesTXSD]

The technical term we use:

"There's crap in the water up ahead!"

Best wishes,
Jim

[Pat Anderson]

Do you mean lawyers on a boat or in the courtroom? If on a boat, I think Jim is fairly accurate, "crap" and other even more graphical scatological terms are frequently employed. In the courtroom I haven't clue, although the authoritative legal resource Wikipedia (joke, folks) says "In modern usage, flotsam also includes driftwood, logs and other natural debris in oceans and waterways, much of which enters waterways through the action of shore surf, rain or wind. Flotsam on beaches may increase after storms due to the debris brought there from riverbanks and drainage channels being flushed out, or marine equipment (including broken docks and piers) torn loose."

[journey on]

I remember reading that the terms flotsam and jetsam had meaning in Henry VIII's time. One the king had right to and the other was the finders stuff. Reminds us that the terms really do have a specific meaning (at some time.)

Boris

[ppriest]

And what do you suppose would be the proper term to describe the course of this topic?

Paul Priest
Sequim

[El and Bill]

Like most conversations in a pub -- meandering! How's that, Paul?

[SeaSpray]

To meander further - What were you doing "deep in the bowels of a bullet scarred hotel in Bosnia"?

Steve

[thataway]

I am a sucker for those little (3" x 5" x 1"), such as the Pocket Reference Guide by Thomas J Glover (all sorts of useful facts--lots of mechanical and math formulae).

Last weekend I spotted "Boater's Pocket Reference"--by Thomsas McEwen. This little book has almost as much information as Chapmans--maybe more! The the Glossary:
"Flotsam"--floating articles which have not been deliberity thrown into the water (as Jetsam), often the result of a shipwreck.

"Jetsam" Floating materials which have been purposefully thrown overboard, often to lighten ship.

This seemed as good an explaination as I have heard. So I have to assume the container which we hit at night while racing off the coast of Mexico was Flotsam. Fortunately that boat had a 2" balsa core--and although the container severely damaged the outer hull, pushed in the balsa, and delaminated the inner glass, it did not breech the hull, and we didn't even know about it, until the next night when we anchored in Enseneda. (We were beating to weather at 8 knots in 10 to 15 foot seas and 50 + knots of wind)

[El and Bill]

We've been overseas for most of October, visiting a region we had never been to before -- mostly because it was a war zone until recently, and could flare up again over Kosovo (Serbia says "no way independence". Russia says, "We agree with Serbia." Kosovars are voting soon and it looks like they will choose independence. The UN, US, and EU are in the middle, with 'peacekeepers' there. Who knows what will result.

We started in Budapest (where the Jews and Roma were wiped out in WWII), and railed down to Croatia (a country that sided with the Nazis in WWII and slaughtered thousands of resident Serbs). Tito shut that down, and unified the Balkans into Yugoslavia but with him gone, Slobodon Milosovic tried to impose Serb domination over all the disparate parts of sundered Yugoslavia -- and the Serbs slaughtered thousands of Croats and Muslims, in the last decade.

The Slovenians gained independence after a ten-day war with the Serb dominated ex-Yugoslav army; Croatia had a terrible time; Bosnia and Herzegovina were shredded by the Serbs, and finally divided with a UN brokered cease fire into two parts -- one Serb -- the other Croat and Bosniak (Muslim). We traveled through both parts -- houses destroyed and abandoned, bomb craters, bullet and shrapnel scars everywhere (thousands of unrecovered landmines [you don't walk off the concrete in Bosnia]).

We traveled briefly in Montenegro, recently freed from Serb domination and avoided Kosovo that is too much a tinder box for us.

We met and had long talks with many locals, and the pain and loss is foremost in their minds. Sarajevo was under siege for three years -- a beautiful town (winter Olympics in the early '80's) ruined by artillery, rocket and tank fire. We had a dinner in the home of one of the Muslim survivors and their tales of those years were horrific --

But -- on the positive side -- the Adriatic coast and the Croatian cities that hug the steep limestone slopes above the clear blue water are glorious -- what a place to cruise! We visited seventeen-hundred-year-old amphitheaters and palaces from Roman times -- and medieval castles and walled cities.

My primary interest in visiting the region was geologic -- I studied the geology of the region in college (it is that famous) and have worked in similar geologic regions but had never been to the type locality - the Dalmatian coast -- and now, with a lull in wars, it was time to see those rocks. And they are incredible!!

How's that for a meandering diversion from flotsam and jetsam?

[DaveS]

E & B....did you find any rocksam?

(On a more serious note, thank you for sharing these most recent adventures of yours. Certainly, reminds me of how fortunate we are to live where we do!)

[thataway]

Bill, I am saddened that some of the treasures of Yugoslovia (I still think of it by that name) were damaged by the war.

We had the pleasure of cruising the entire coast from the Albanian boarder to the Italian Border for over a month in 1984. One of the major features for us, was that there were mediavial cities which had NOT been touched by war--not in WWI, not in WWII, as the most of Europe--and there were some of the best Roman Ruins there also. At that time it was a very depressed country. We met a number of very wonderful people there and really enjoyed sailing the coast.

[SeaSpray]

Hi Bill,

What you won't do to go see some rocks!!

I admire your and El's adventurous nature and courage. I doubt we would ever be comfortable enough to visit such a troubled area - but it is fun to hear about your travels. Let us know if you add it to your site.

Steve

[Pat Anderson]

[TyBoo]

I don't know from no Flotsam, but I really liked that old cartoon show about the Jetsams. The big old radome on my boat even looks kinda like their house.

Bosnia. Wow, that's neat. Ever notice how meandering threads started by E & B always grow in interest rather than lessen?

[Hunkydory]

El and Bill

Very good diversion. You two are doing it again. Showing us younger brats where courage and a adventuresome spirit can lead if we are willing to let loose of our fears and go.

We too are hoping for and looking forward to a more detailed report on your site.

Jay