Tomcat anchor

rogerbum · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:50 am Post subject:

Yep - looks like a spammer - 3 posts only - all about his commercially available anchor.

Ancora Latina · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:11 am Post subject:

B~C · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:45 am Post subject:

My spam detector didn't go off, interesting pictures of the bow roller fit up.

Ez Anchor Pull observations-
the traditional V or U shape bow roller that helps to guide the rode onto the windlass is trouble. It will not allow the rode to work its way back and forth across the drum causing it to pile up in the center of the drum and make a mess. A wide, flat bow roller will help to allow proper respooling of the rode otherwise you would need a person on the bow working that line back & forth on the drum as you raise anchor.

Traditional windlass operation dictates that you motor up your rode and wind up the slack. I found that doesn't work so good with the EZ system being that with many loose layers of rode wound on the drum, when you break your anchor loose, the tension on the rode often times causes the rode to dig into the loose wraps not allowing it to unwind. It is hard to see if your anchor is actually going up or down when deploying the anchor, if you have spots where the rode has dug in and bound up on the drum, while you think you're lowering the anchor, it's actually coming up Smile

A person has to keep an close eye on that drum looking for any tangles.

I think it's a good system, I wish I had one, they just have some different quirks.

marvin4239 · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:54 am Post subject:

Joao interesting looking anchor. Have you thought of maybe becoming a site sponsor. Typically when we see a first post with a link to a business first thing that comes to mind is someone is here just trying to sell his wares. If that isn't the case I appoligize. Maybe some of us are a little over protective of the site but we surely don't want to exclude anyone with a genuine interest in C-Dory's. At the sametime we don't want the site to become a big advertisement for Marine Products.

thataway · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:13 am Post subject:

I don't see any scientific testing (as much as any anchor tests can be scientific)--with a lot of the web site "in construction".

There are a lot of similarity with the Spade anchor, and the Oceana anchor (now marketed as the "sword" by Spade. Also similar are two pulling angles--the Raya of 32 degrees (the magic number of Robert Danforth from the 1930's) and the 40 (45 in the Fortress) for mud...So this is certainly not a new idea. The variation of the weight, balance, and location of the shank is what separates the various anchors--and perhaps avoids patent infringements. Along with the taper or lack of taper of the roll of the fluke.

It is also similar to the Ronca and the Manson Supreme.

Is it spam? Don't know--but it would appear that the poster put the post here primarily to expose us to his anchor in three different threads...that smacks of Spam...but we all have different definations. He has also done minimal posts about his anchor on a number of other forums--as was done for Spade and Ronca anchors in the past...(we assume different developers).

I'll stick with the anchors I own: Manson Supreme, Delta, Fortress, Danforth, and Northill....plus an old fisherman...They seem to do quite well, and have served me well in winds up to 90 knots in various boats.

Ancora Latina

thataway · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject:

Good points, and I had read them on your posts on other forums and web site.

Marketing anchors is difficult--and depends on acceptance by a large number of boaters. In effect the boating sales market in the US is controlled by West Marine. They took on Spade and some Oceane anchors, In our local store, there was one Oceane which eventually went for about $25!--no one was interested and it went for scrap price after sitting on the shelf for several years.

Tests--I am sure you know that they are very difficiult--and to be accepted have to be one of the "big tests"--probably the best of these were like the 2006 West Marine off Santa Cruz (Your Raya apparently was available then, but not tested). Even then, these good tests come up with some surprising tests. The time honored Danforth Pattern (Performance WM) didn't set well and got a very poor rating. I have anchored in the exact same places where these tests were done with a Danforth HT with an excellent set and holding. Surprising to me was the Hyrobubble. I agree about your thoughts on the roll bar, but the anchors, with the roll bar and non roll bar (Ronca vs Spade) and conical vs cylindrical did almost the same--with in error limits of the test. There was little difference between the Ronca and the Manson Supreme. Time or distance to set on various bottoms is difficult to measure--and is often a major problem. I understand your point about weight distribution and shanks etc--but the light weight and large fluke area is one of the disadvantages of an excellent anchor--the Fortress. Paradoxically, the best anchor in our local soft muddy bayou is the Super Max--an anchor has to work down through the mud to clay or sand--and for some reason, this anchor does it better than any others tested.

Price--The Manson is outselling the Ronca and Spade because of price point--it may not be quite as good an anchor--but I have yet to hear of a failure of one (one report of a bent tip--but I have seen almost every type of anchor bent at some point)--and it costs almost half. Your price of $280 plus shipping is too high to be competitive in at least the market in our type of boats. If you are targeting the larger cruising boat market--then you may be price competive (but I have anchored thousands of nights on CQR's and Danforths--and only drug on a handfull of occasions--and under circumstances where any anchor would have drug: ie ball bearing type of 2" diameter rocks). There is no question in my mind that the "second generation" Ronca, Spade, Manson Supreme and I am sure that your Raya is in that group--are better anchors than the CQR or classic Danforths.

Good luck--let us know when you get your anchor included in some good tests, such as West Marine or other (and I do not include the recent Practical sailor type of test).

Ancora Latina · Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:57 am Post subject:

Thanks Bob for all your suggestions.

The boating sales market in the US is controlled by West Marine.
Fortunately not!.. They have not been very successful selling the Spade and the Ocean anchors...

Tests:
Ahhhh tests !!!, if you don’t have them you can’t sell your products – If you are « First » on a test – everybody say that tests are not a good reference.. They are NEVER Scientifics and it is always possible to deeply criticize them...

We should be tested soon (I hope) by two of the most important sailing magazines in the States – this month in New Zealand and in Brazil too...

The test done end of 2007 by SAIL magazine with the collaboration of Chuck Hawley from West marine, was a good one (our anchor was not available at this time)
- The best anchor was the Hydrobubble! and this anchor is no longer on the market as it didn’t sell well...
- One of the good anchors of the test was the « commercial » winner, as « somebody » from the company has published everywhere on internet « MODIFIED » curves showing that his anchor was the « first » - Is « Marketing » more important than tests results?

The time honored Danforth Pattern (Performance WM) didn't set well and got a very poor rating:
As I said earlier most of the time « clones » are not as good as originals...

, but the anchors, with the roll bar and non roll bar (Ronca vs Spade) and conical vs cylindrical did almost the same
Yes, they all went up to the maximum limit of the test (5000 lbs) but what would have been the results if the test have been done up to the max limit of each anchor – the start of dragging ??

but the light weight and large fluke area is one of the disadvantages of an excellent anchor--the Fortress

Light weight is not a problem, AS LONG AS there is enough weight on the tip to start the static part of penetration. It is well known, that CQR below 7 kg doesn’t work, the smallest 2 kg Bruce was discontinued because it didn’t work either.

Although the Fortress is a very good anchor as a secondary one, it has two main problems,
- very low weight at the anchor tips
- wrong penetration angle
When set, it has a very good holding, due to the large surface area of the flukes – The problem is to set it!

the best anchor in our local soft muddy bayou is the Super Max
Soft mud is a problem for most anchors – ideally, the penetrating angle of an anchor should be adapted for each specific density of the sea bed. As this is not easy, anchors have a « MEAN » penetration angle of about 32°. Only a few anchors (Fortress – Super Max – RAYA) have the possibility of changing this angle to have a better adapted angle depending of the conditions of anchoring.

Price:
Yes this is also a very important characteristic, we are looking at all possibilities to reduce the selling price, one possible way we are studying, is to manufacture anchors locally to reduce the shipping costs

Thanks Bob for your wishes, we will keep you informed

Regards

João

thataway · Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject:

Answered in private messages, due to length, if anyone else is interested I'll be happy to forward my responses.

Bob

Moxieabs · Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject:

I find no mention of the drum capacity of the EZ Pull for say 1/2" line. Does anybody have this info?

thataway · Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject:

Moxielabs, the web site gives 160 feet for the #8 EZ anchor puller. I believe that Warren has i150 feet of the plait, plus chain.

Discovery · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:50 am Post subject:

bringing this thread back up.

We are replacing the anchor on our TomCat in anticipation of a cruise to SE Alaska next spring/summer. We have a Bruce 10 kg. that has let us drag in a number of places. It won't set into kelp or heavy weed in the Pacific NW, and won't set in thin mud and sand over limestone or coral like the Florida Keys.

I am considering a Manson Supreme in 25 lb. or 35 lb., or a Manson Boss in 25 lb. or 35 lb.

Asking for input from the C-Brat's that boat in the PNW, or SE Alaska, or have used the Manson anchors. Also which weight anchor to use on the TomCat.

Hunky Dory has a Manson Boss, but I forgot what weight the anchor was.

cmetzenberg · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject:

i'll take a bruce claw over anything for where i operate. I wish they were still made.

Hunkydory · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject:

Our New Manson Boss is 25# & is equal in surface area to most 40# anchors I've seen. This makes it look huge & way overkill for our 22CD, but so far I'm very pleased with it & definitely prefer it to the 22# Bruce or claw type we used on all our previous Alaska cruises. I think the Manson Supreme or Boss in 25 or 35 pounds all good choices for your Bruce type replacement with the 35# range being overkill for you similar to the 25# on ours.

Jay