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A very SH***Y aspect of owning a C-D 25
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Ron on Meander



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 561
City/Region: Powell River
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meander
Photos: Meander
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: A very SH***Y aspect of owning a C-D 25 Reply with quote

Well, I was feeling pretty good about the service I just performed on my Wallas. So good in fact I decided to change the impeller in the macerator pump. The pump was not performing that great and I though an impeller might do the trick. Sooooo I opened up the the cockpit hatch that gives access to the macerator. Hmmm I thought, this smells a bit strong. Maybe the hoses will need to be changed soon because they have become permeated with the smell. Oh well, that's doable and probably good preventitive maintenance. As I was examining the hoses to see what would be involved, I noticed a drip, drip, drip coming from the area of the fitting in the bottom of the holding tank. If you guessed a crack in the tank right where the fitting is, you get the prize. Shocked The fitting is, of course at the very bottom of the tank. Its the one the macerator hose connects to. I guess the tank there is weak and the hose was putting enough pressure on it to cause the crack. I'm just thankful that this didn't happen (at least I didn't notice it) when we were on our three week trip down the inside passage.

OK, now that I'm finished whinning, does anyone have any idea what can be done to fix this. The tank can not be removed except in pieces. A new one can't be put in, unless there is such a thing as a collapsable tank. Can plastic be glued or welded? Getting access to this area is possible through the hatch, but Its not easy to see the bottom where the crack is, much less work on it.

Suggestions????
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, you want to empty and clean the tank--no matter what.

There are three ways (at least) of dealing with this. There is a plastic welding epoxy, which works fairly well. You often have to "Flame harden" the plastic first. This means passing a blow torch over the area--also the area needs to be dry. Do a Google search on "plastic tank repair". There was a specific product mentioned on a thread within the last few weeks.

Second is using glass cloth and thickened West systems epoxy. Rough up the area with 36 grit sand paper by hand. This gives some "Tooth" for the epoxy. Use Cabosol to thicken the epoxy. Put a layer of the epoxy on then the cloth then several more layers of the epoxy--put this well beyond the crack.

Third is to Heat weld the crack. J P Whitney and Eastwood both have a number of heat welding products for plastic tanks--and this is probably what I would go with--but you have to buy the "Gun" and appropiate rods.

Finally is to cut up the tank, and put in a bladder tank, or another option is to go with the tanks which are used in the newer boats--the Sea Land Travler marine head which has a built in holding tank--in some ways a better solution. It is a simpler head and uses fresh water, when necessary. Way down the line, is to cut the deck out and put in a new plastic tank..then put in a rim of wood, and refasten the deck.

Good luck--and wear good gloves!

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron-

The Doctor has spoken!

I can direct you to a product by Loctite that claims to be able to glue/weld the HDPE plastic together.

Here it is: Loctite HDPE Adhesive

Good Luck!

Joe

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"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5922
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's only a 2005 boat - contact the factory and see if they can/will help. At the very least, they should learn about this problem so it isn't repeated.
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Wandering Sagebrush



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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City/Region: Northeast Oregon
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Constant Craving
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Warranty!!! Reply with quote

I agree with Roger. This should be a warranty issue.
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Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: The Villages(FL)
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C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might try a patch kit available for an RV blackwater (poly) tank. They work well. I don't know if it would work in your situation, but might be worth considering. You should be able to pick up the kit at any well equipped RV supply store.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek
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Ron on Meander



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 561
City/Region: Powell River
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meander
Photos: Meander
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, Roger, Casey, Sagebrush and especially Dr. Bob,
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I do intend to see if it will be covered by warranty.

I'm a little leary of trying the patch route because of where the crack is, right on the fitting. I'm lucky in that I knew I'd be doing the macerator and had pump and flushed the tank especially well this time prior to finding the leak. I would hate to try the patch, fill the tank and find in a month or two that the patch didn't hold when the tank was full! Rolling Eyes

I'm leaning toward changing to the Traveler toilet or possibly following Pat's lead and going with the Airhead. My concern with the Airhead is if it can handle full time use for 3-4 weeks at a time in a cool climate like the Northwest. I sure woul'nt want to end up with it being just like an outhouse on the boat.

Part of the reason I would change as well is the added storage space that then would be available with the holding tank removed.

Thanks for your help
Ron
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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1820
City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: replacement toilet/tanks - I have the Sealand Traveler with the 9gallon tank upon which the bowl sits. Yes, it works well and is easy to clean, BUT considering the flush water volume, that 9 gallon tank gets full in very few uses! Many have put a valve on the flush water inlet to shut it down or off.

That unit is great if you can empty the tank frequently. Pat of Daydream has the Airhead and he's right up there in the Seattle area with you, and he likes his Airhead, I've heard.

Good luck,

John
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Doryman



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Anacortes
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C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drjohn71a wrote:
Many have put a valve on the flush water inlet to shut it down or off.


My wife is very suspicious of the AirHead so I am going to wait until we see Pat and Patty on their boat so she can examine it first hand and ask questions. Meanwhile, a valve modification like you describe might be very worthwhile, if I understood what it was for! Mr. Green After the mod, when flushed, the waste drops down but no water comes in to flush -- is that correct?

Warren

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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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City/Region: Wichita
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, Warren. There is often enough liquid waste anyway. Right now, I have to shut the water pump off most of the time or I only get about a dozen uses on each tank!

John
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Doryman



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drjohn71a wrote:
Right now, I have to shut the water pump off most of the time or I only get about a dozen uses on each tank!


Sounds like a very worthwhile mod to undertake this winter. What kind of valve did you install, and where? I don't recall seeing pix of this in your album?

Thanks,
Warren
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Ron on Meander



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 561
City/Region: Powell River
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meander
Photos: Meander
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, "simplify, simplify, simplify" - get a 25 with an Airhead Composting Marine Toilet!


Pat,
I know you are "high" on the airhead toilet. Would you be so kind as to post a bit of a review of your success with this product.

1)ease of use.
2)odour? Inside and outside near the vent.
3)How do you empty it and how often?
4)Maintenance? Whats involved with the peat most, dessicant, "coffee filters" etc.
5)Size - does it fit well in the head of the 25?
6)Does it take some instruction on how to use for visitors on the boat?
7) Aesthetics - how does it look installed? Strange that I care how a toilet looks but........

Thanks
Ron
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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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City/Region: Wichita
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
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Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron,

I am sorry to hear of your problems with the remote holding tank, but that sems to be a rite of passage on many boats somewhere down the road. I've had to tear the flooring out of several boats over the years to remove leaking remotely plumbed tanks, so anything that can be kept right up there in the open - visible in the head compartment - is a great improvement, even if it is just a porta-potti.

I liked the Air-head concept that Pat has, but the factory says you have to pay for the Sealand head, even if you order an Air-head unit, so I went with the Sealand. The Sealand is great except that it fills rapidly. This winter that's going to be a problem after the pumpout station closes.

I think the principal on the Air-head is that the liquid waste drains to a front "gutter" which drains into a removable "pitcher-like" thing which you dump when full. When going #2, a peat/paper like "cup" is put into the #2 expected fallout area where the solid waste falls. This is dumped into the composting compartment. The peat/paper is to match the nitrogen content of the waste. As long as there is not too much liquid, my understanding is that there is little odor.

I think Pat added a Nicro fan or similar to the Airhead vent to aid in drying the compost compartment. I think he said he dumps the solids once or twice a year.

For me, for winter use, the Airhead would probably hold much more waste than the Sealand, since I won't be able to pump out the Sealand once it freezes here.

The Airhead does require dumping the urine pitcher, much like a Porta-Potti, but that is usually less objectional than dumping a Porta-Potty full of solid and liquid waste.

The Airhead site gives alot of info: http://www.airheadtoilet.com/

John
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron on Meander wrote:
Quote:
Yes, "simplify, simplify, simplify" - get a 25 with an Airhead Composting Marine Toilet!


Pat,
I know you are "high" on the airhead toilet. Would you be so kind as to post a bit of a review of your success with this product.

1)ease of use.
2)odour? Inside and outside near the vent.
3)How do you empty it and how often?
4)Maintenance? Whats involved with the peat most, dessicant, "coffee filters" etc.
5)Size - does it fit well in the head of the 25?
6)Does it take some instruction on how to use for visitors on the boat?
7) Aesthetics - how does it look installed? Strange that I care how a toilet looks but........

Thanks
Ron


Patty here. Pat will respond, of course, but I beat him to it.
Questions: 1)Very easy to use---pretty much like any toilet.
2) The solid container really doesn't have an odor. The urine is detectible when getting full but easily dumped. There is a fan constantly venting through the roof. If you stuck your nose up to the vent outside you would know it was a bathroom, but the fan does a good job of keeping the interior fairly odor-free. We also keep a can of Lysol spray or Glade handy.
3) The urine container is in front and is easily emptied. The solid container comes off with the removal of two bolts, we dump it in a black garbage sack, and we choose to bury it rather than let it sit for a few more months to decompose to fully usable compost. We have emptied it 3 times in just over 2 years. It handled 3 men for 1 week up to Alaska, 2 men and 1 woman for a week in Alaska, and 2 men for 2 weeks returning from Alaska---then we emptied it.
4) You seed the solid tank with peat moss and lay a coffee filter down when you use it (the paper helps with composting), and that's it. We keep a container of disinfective wipes in the bathroom to clean the outside like you would any toilet.
5) It fits perfectly in the space intended.
6) We remind guests to use the filter. We have a small lined gargage can for toilet paper. We don't put that in the toilet although directions don't say not to.
7) It looks like a normal toilet, I think. I don't think anyone would know it's not connected to pipes and hoses and pumps and holding tanks.
OK, Pat, pick up the slack.

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Ron on Meander



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 561
City/Region: Powell River
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meander
Photos: Meander
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patty,
Thanks so much for the review! It seems you think the Airhead is great as well as Pat. Hope you had a great big boat cruise and sorry to have missed you when you were up in Vancouver. It would have been great to have been able to connect up.

John,
Thanks for the info on the Traveler. (and airhead) I checked out a 2007 CD 25 with the Traveler at a dealers today and it seems to be a much cleaner installation. The only thing I didn't care for is the macerator and Y-Valve is in the galley cabinet. Its probably totally phycological but the idea of the plumbing running past where we store our food is...well, lets just say somewhat unsettling.
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