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seabeagle
Joined: 24 May 2008 Posts: 329 City/Region: Farmington Hills
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Beagle II - Sold 4-19-12
Photos: Sea Beagle II
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thumbs down.
I've had one on my CD16 cruiser for 4 months now and could have gotten the same results from a $35 plastic hydrofoil. Did not help at all with cavitation. Plus, under certain wave conditions, small slow rolls of wake from odd angles, the boat can be violently thrown sideways. Must be the way that it holds the water. Prior to that, I would have bounced across the wake. Now, hang on tight, you could get knocked out. I guess the core problem of my cavitation is the near flat bottom and the prop being too close to the surface. My old boats were serious bottom feeders and never had ride issues.
I still love my CD though. _________________ I am the 125% I work so the 99% don't have to.
http://www.youtube.com/SeaBeagleII |
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Steve Grover
Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 330 City/Region: Lake Tahoe
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Tee Ten
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I do believe you may have another problem |
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seabeagle
Joined: 24 May 2008 Posts: 329 City/Region: Farmington Hills
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Beagle II - Sold 4-19-12
Photos: Sea Beagle II
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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I hope its not the captain. Gave up the bottle 14 years ago. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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You may be correct that the small fins will work well on smaller boats. I have used te Dolfins on 12 to 14 foot RIB's very effectively. But the cavitation is a bit puzzling? Did you have cavitation before putting the Permatrim on? The mounting height of the engine is critical--both with and without the Permatrim. I have found the Permatrim to be more for putting the bow down and avoiding the pounding, plus getting the stern up faster, than dealing with problems of cavitation. Cavitation is due to other issues--such as prop size, blade types, clearance of the lower unit, and motor height--as well as the boat's bottom and water flow.
My personal experience with even the smaller fins, is that they improve handling in the situations you describe--but again--I have not owned a 16. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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You may be correct that the small fins will work well on smaller boats. I have used te Dolfins on 12 to 14 foot RIB's very effectively. But the cavitation is a bit puzzling? Did you have cavitation before putting the Permatrim on? The mounting height of the engine is critical--both with and without the Permatrim. I have found the Permatrim to be more for putting the bow down and avoiding the pounding, plus getting the stern up faster, than dealing with problems of cavitation. Cavitation is due to other issues--such as prop size, blade types, clearance of the lower unit, and motor height--as well as the boat's bottom and water flow.
My personal experience with even the smaller fins, is that they improve handling in the situations you describe--but again--I have not owned a 16. |
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seabeagle
Joined: 24 May 2008 Posts: 329 City/Region: Farmington Hills
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Beagle II - Sold 4-19-12
Photos: Sea Beagle II
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | You may be correct that the small fins will work well on smaller boats. I have used te Dolfins on 12 to 14 foot RIB's very effectively. But the cavitation is a bit puzzling? Did you have cavitation before putting the Permatrim on? The mounting height of the engine is critical--both with and without the Permatrim. I have found the Permatrim to be more for putting the bow down and avoiding the pounding, plus getting the stern up faster, than dealing with problems of cavitation. Cavitation is due to other issues--such as prop size, blade types, clearance of the lower unit, and motor height--as well as the boat's bottom and water flow.
My personal experience with even the smaller fins, is that they improve handling in the situations you describe--but again--I have not owned a 16. |
My current prop is a 3 blade 11.1 x 13. The previous one was a 3 blade 11.6 x 11.
As far as the motor height it is mounted as low as it can be. You can kind of see it in the picture.
http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album768/New_Name_8.sized.jpg
Also, when comparing the level bottom of the boat to the level of the cavitation plate, the plate is about 1 inch lower. To the best of my knowledge, that is the longest shaft available.
If the water is like glass, no problems. I have cavitation in as little as 3 inch ripples at 13 mph. This can vary due to wind direction, wave direction, or balance of the boat. |
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Spike38
Joined: 29 May 2008 Posts: 63 City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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In following this thread I noted earlier posts mentioning improved maneuverability at slow speeds and even with way on in neutral. I'm just getting used to outboard power (again, after too many years to want to think about), am consistently non-plussed by my inability to steer at very slow speeds, being used to sailboats. Just curious as to whether a concensus exists on the degree to which Permatrims really help in this regard. If a lot they might be worth the price of admission. (I've got trim tabs so presume they wouldn't add a lot in the trim department.) |
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marvin4239
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Posts: 1165 City/Region: Jacksonville Florida/Wilmington NC
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-FLE II
Photos: C-FLE II
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Spike38 on the subject of contolling trim with the permatrim verses the trim tabs for me the permatrim is far superior in that it's much easier to use and the trim is altered much quicker. I use my trim tabs to control side trim. As far as added control at low speeds I do believe the permatrim helps in this department also. _________________ marvin |
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Rob & Karen
Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 353 City/Region: Franklin
State or Province: TN
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Life of Riley
Photos: Life of Riley
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I started with Lenco 12x12 tabs. After asking lots of questions and working up the courage to drill 10 holes in my motor, I finally bought and installed a permatrim. I have been very happy with it.
The following is a quote from Les Lampman. He posted this in response to my question about having both trim tabs and a permatrim. This helped move me towards ordering the permatrim.
"I don't see it as being an "either or" situation at all. I'd rather have both options than none and only the tabs if I get one choice but for the price I'd definitely have both."
Rob |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Spike,
The permatrims definitely allow better steering while gliding thru the water with no power. Like you, I had sailed for years and really felt lost with so little control while gliding/drifting without power on a power boat. Even the TomCat 255, which I assume is more difficult to turn than any of the single hulled C-Dory models, has excellent control with the Perma trims.
I glide down the way and into my slip every time with no power needed since the steering under drift is so pronounced.
John |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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drjohn71a wrote: | Spike,
The permatrims definitely allow better steering while gliding thru the water with no power. Like you, I had sailed for years and really felt lost with so little control while gliding/drifting without power on a power boat. Even the TomCat 255, which I assume is more difficult to turn than any of the single hulled C-Dory models, has excellent control with the Perma trims.
I glide down the way and into my slip every time with no power needed since the steering under drift is so pronounced.
John |
John-
Have ever driven a jet boat?
Anytime the motor runs, the jet thrusts.
Forward, neutral and reverse are accomplished by a cup diverter:
No diverter= forward.
Diverter fully down, thrust backwards = reverse
Diverter half down, jet stream half and half = neutral (spinning jet stream still rotates boat some)
Come into dock, shut off engine= no thrust, = no steering= no control
Takes some getting used to. You have to learn to drive a boat all over again, pretty much.
Some jet drives (Hamilton) are better than others, and have a little better control.
CW could tell us more about this!
Jet skis are like this, and most of them have NO NEUTRAL OR REVERSE, JUST FORWARD AND IN GEAR!!
Jet boats need bit of a rudder to steer with when he power's off, but a rudder on a jet ski would be very dangerous.
If you've never driven a jet boat, don't just jump into one and expect business as usual! It's like a 5 year old kid thinking because he can ride a tricycle, he can jump into his dad's pickup and go 4-wheeling on the sand dunes!
Permatrims get a lot of their control from their downward side panels that act as rudders, and Permatrims are the best hydrofoils for any of the C-Dorys, as about 15 previous threads have concluded!
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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drjohn71a
Joined: 15 Jul 2004 Posts: 1820 City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Joe, I have had several jet boats. The last one had twin engines, but had absolutely no steering control once the throttle let off. Docking it was like throwing a boulder at the float and crossing your fingers!
As mentioned, I can steer the TomCat adrift without power for over a hundred yards right into the slip. I do it every time I return nowadays... many of my dockmates are amazed you can steer so well without power after having installed the Perma Trims.
I too believe the length and the turned under edges are what works.
John |
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phillipgo
Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 3 City/Region: Westchester
State or Province: NY
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I installed a Permatrim on a 19' Arima,( simalar to the C-Dory). I am very happy with it. Well worth the money. |
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C-Hawk
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 2146 City/Region: Carpinteria / Channel Islands
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Hawk
Photos: C-Hawk
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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phillipgo wrote: | I installed a Permatrim on a 19' Arima,( simalar to the C-Dory). I am very happy with it. Well worth the money. |
Hi Phillip,
I almost bought an Arima- great boats.
I used to take a 17' Sea Ranger out 50+ miles for albacore.
You might want to check out the Arima Owners Group, another great owners group. _________________ Roger
2002- CD22- "Fishtales" returned to factory 2008
2008- CD22- "C-Hawk" Sold
KJ6VVB
A Brat I am, At sea I be
God is Great, Beer is Good.... and People are Crazy |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7887 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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and dont let the door hit you on the way out
great bunch of nice people here _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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