dealing with a dealer

[surfbird]

I am looking for a used CD 22, but I would also consider a new boat if the price is right. I am wondering whether anyone that bought a new boat requested to see a copy of the dealer invoice that lists dealer's cost and MSRP for boat and options ? I know that years ago you would get a grimace when you asked a car salesman for this info, but now it is a common request.
I know that CD dealers have families to feed, but I would appreciated a transaction where all the cards are on the table (esp. when there is 50 grand in the pot!)
It is probably true that because of the high demand for CD and the low number of CD dealers, our bargaining power is limited...
So far, I have asked one dealer for the invoice and was rejected.
Cheers,
Jim

[drjohn71a]

Surfbird,

Whatever a dealer pays, you just have to see what the best deal is for you from whatever local dealers you have. As you know, the cheapest bid is not always the best. It would be worth something to have a dealer in your corner to help put the package together.

John

[Lucky Day]

It seems to me that the goal is getting the package you want for the best deal. The deal, to my mind, would include the distance to the dealer and every other factor. What dealers pay for the boats is really not the point - the point is what they'll sell them for. Good luck on your quest - new or used.

[flapbreaker]

Boats generally sit on dealers lots longer than cars so I don't think you can expect to pay $100 over invoice. In fact I think the whole invoice thing in the auto industry is a big scam. Lot's of kickbacks, dealer incentives in the auto industry. Anyway the best way to know if your getting a reasonable deal is to compare their price with what you can buy in the used market and then decide what better fits your budget.

[tsturm]

[Sneaks]

[Pat Anderson]

The Boat Show prices are generally the best you are going to see, and you haggle over throwing in this or that - a second or third battery, a swim step, the 20 hour service, etc., not huge ticket items but they do add up. The idea of buying a C-Dory like a car seems kind of unlikely (the guys at the Stealership - thanks Uncle - are trained to beat you every time anyway). Maybe we need a Costco C-Dory Buying Program, that is how we like to buy cars! Anyway, with the annual price increases, the only mistake you could have made over the last couple of years would have been not buying. A couple of years later it will seem like a great deal no matter how much you paid.

[Wefings]

I was thinking about that last week............ http://wefings.com/blog/?p=89
Marc

[marvin4239]

In my time I've bought 5 new boats over the years and about that many used boats. One thing a person has in their favor when shopping for a C-Dory is it's pretty easy to determine the value and average price from the C-Brats site. Another thing from what I've seen is C-Dory being a quality product their dealers all seem to be quality dealers. In my area of Florida their are many boat dealers with a lot full of boats a little metal building for a sales office and maybe the same for a service department. You may be able to save a few bucks buying from one of these guys but they may be gone in a few months. Their service guy may have gotten his training at Jiffy Lube. My last two purchases were C-Dory's the first from Big Boys Play Toys and the second from Wefings. The way I negotiated the deal was I told them what I wanted and they told me the price. We shook hands and made the deal. I didn't try to beat their price down and they didn't try to over charge me. We both got a good deal. These are both well established dealers with excellent reputations and I expect them to be around for the rest of my life. When I need advice, service or anything else that may come up all I need do is pick up the phone. Marc wrote a very good article on just this in his blog intitled "State of the Boat Business and Free Advice."

[dotnmarty]

Marc-Thanks for the comments on the state of the boat business. What you say applies equally to all retail business. As a guy in his 70's, I'm glad I've lived long enough to see it beginning to come full circle. Hopefully the skilled craftsmen and the moms and pops who were destroyed by the big box low price guys are smiling in heaven.

[drjohn71a]

Surfbird,

In some way, you need to view yourself in the position of those with whom you do business. For example, are you any good in your chosen field? If you have 20-30 years experience in your field, do you think your experiences and advice might have some value to a prospective customer? Should you be expected to step in and bail out someone who got the cheapest service/product elsewhere and then came to you for free advice based upon your years of expertise?

Back to you as a customer: How much might it be worth to have things orgainized, installed and arranged by an experienced dealer? Or would you prefer just to have your boat dumped in your front yard at the lowest price? How much would it cost to relocate the misplaced accessories? How much boating time might be lost this season for that? What brand/style/model of trim tabs, autopilot, gps, depth finder, radar, would fit the best or work the best for your boat? Which model is the best for you: CD16, CD22,CD25, TC255,Venture, or what? Is the boat you're wheeler dealing on capable of meeting your family's anticipated needs? Which trailer is best? Which anchor windlass? Which radio, refrigerator, A/C, furnace, carpet, curtain, engine brand and so on ad infinitum/


As another example, I am a dentist. We often have people come in to my office here in Kansas who have had dental work done in the Far East, Mexico, etc., at a fraction of the cost here - even way below my costs!
Some have had "one appointment orthodontic treatment" done on their kids! What a miracle! Or what a con-game? So, I am left trying to explain that nothing short of a miracle from above could completely treat crooked teeth in a child in one appointment for $50.

Or, they have crowns or dentures made in some far off place and come to me to "adjust" the new crowns, since they can't eat in them, the porcelain is falling off and can't take the pain any more. Of course, I am expected to "fix" the faulty work they had done on the cheap, which is impossible.

I kind of expect some boat buyers are similar, and I am amazed at how nice many of the dealers are when the "good buys" are brought in to be correctly set up and prepared for reliable use.

Life is much more enjoyable when we respect the expertise and experience of talented people in any profession, be it plumber, electrician, car/boat mechanic, body shop, boat dealer, etc.. I even try to do business with reliable, honest car dealers any time that is possible.

My dad sold cars and houses most of his life, and he took care of his customers to the point that they would come to him decades after a sale to have him help them buy another house or car. Now that is what it's all about - long term, trusting,reliable relationships!

Some Eastern thoughts relate to Kharma - what we do comes back to us - what comes around, goes around - and I think you'll always have a more enjoyable purchase and use experience by sticking with people who are experienced, knowledgeable, and trustworthy in whatever field of interest, and pay them what they're worth.

John

[marvin4239]

Simply put "The Cost Is Less When You Use the Best!"

[Doryman]

When I bought my TC from Master Marine in November of 06 I had them write into the contract that the price they sold the boat to me would not be higher than their advertised price at the 07 SBS the following January. I did this when they promised me I was getting their best price. I think they were happy and I was happy.

Another thing to look for is if a dealer has too much inventory on hand and wants to unload to make room for incoming boats. They had a TC rigged with Suzukis, which I did not want (at the time) and two others coming in. They worked with the factory to give me some good deals, such as a "free" Airmar transducer (shoot through) which gave me the incentive to buy the boat in November instead of in April, after the 07 SBS, which is when I had planned to buy.

With the slowdown in sales (due to the economy and the season) and pressure from the factory to sell boats, this may be a good time to buy.

Hope this helps someone.
Warren

[bshillam]

I think several people have already addressed this very well in saying, there are so many other things that come into rigging a boat. It's not just the shell price. It's not just a motor and shell. We can have a CD rigged just as uniquely as each one of us there is on this site.

It never amazes me when someone will shop a figure $$ (for whatever) to the lowest number on a large purchase and buy hundreds of miles from their own city and then expect the local dealership/business to service their needs. Handle their factory claims. Resolve the problems that the customer or previous dealer caused. When you look at it, they could have bought from their local dealer/business and yes they may have spent all of a few hundred more but they will get so much better servicing after their purchase from the business in your own neighborhood. They begin to develop real relationships with local businesses and these professionals will go (in most cases) out of their way to insure you are handled professionally and take care of you.

Dave Smith has changed the face of the car business (some say for the better) - but remember, your not going to drive out to Idaho for your starter on your new car, but you'll want the local shop to still be there to handle your warranty claim. In the car business it takes sales, service, and parts to successfully (long term) remain open. Do what you expect, if you expect honesty - then make sure your dealing honestly first and foremost.

I am so glad to have the nearest CD dealership as a partner. Afterall - I want them to be around for many years to service my needs and my family's as they change.

[marvin4239]

When I bought my 22 I bought it from a dealer 250 miles from home which was the closest that had what I wanted on the lot (high top). When it was time for the 20 hour service on the Suzuki I went to a local Suzuki dealer about 20 miles away for the service. They were more than glad to take my money and did a good job. I dropped it off at 9 AM and picked it up that afternoon. They will be doing all my engine service work. They don't sell C-Dory but from their reaction to the boat I think they wished they did. Of course if I had a problem C-Dory related I'd take it back to where I bought it. I'd be surprised if any C-Dory dealer would turn down warranty work since they get paid buy the factory if it is a genuine warranty issue. Now if we are talking about something dealer installed thats a different story.