Rivet Failures

c-tick · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: Rivet Failures

Avast, me hearties!
I’m the Skipper of the yacht C-TICK, a beautiful 16 foot Cruiser out of Miami, FL. I am experiencing failures of the rivets that attach the gunwale to the fiberglass side panel that conceals the flotation foam (on both port and starboard). I also am having rivet failures with the seat pedestals where they attach to the hull. Since the TICK is my first C-Dory I was hoping some of you C-Sunned- Salts could enlighten a belayin' pin such as myself as to if this is the expected quality of the vessel, or a fluke. Some suggested repair techniques would also be appreciated. The rivets that penetrate the inside of the hull have me a bit perplexed as to a method of repair that maintains water tight integrity.

Godspeed
Cap’n Paul

P.S. I have pictures but have not mastered how to paste them yet.

Capt. Jim · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject:

I also have poped rivets in the floor of my 16 Cruiser.
Any thoughts on how to deal with this?

c-tick · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject:

I emailed the factory and my closest dealer about the failed rivets on my 16 and neither have responded. I guess from the response on the C-Brats web site - only Jim and I have encountered this problem.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:44 am Post subject:

Are they breaking due to constant pounding in chop?

Are the rivets aluminum, stainless seel, or Monel?

Do they have backing plates (washers}?

Can you go up one size in rivet diameter?

How aboaut going to a tougher rivet material?

What about using a continuous metal strip on the inside instead of the individual washers?

Can you double the number of rivets by reducing the distance between them to one-half?

Would solid machine screws with larger washers or a solid backing strip and doubled nuts locked against each other with Loc-tite work?

What sealing compound is being used currently on the rivet holes? 3M 5200 is tough to beat providing you have the time to let it set up good.

Joe.

c-tick · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:03 am Post subject:

Thanks for the response Joe.
There are some stresses at the rivet locations, but the principle failure mechanism appears to be corrosion of the aluminum center posts. Biscayne Bay is a choppy body of water but since I’m no glutton for punishment – Most of the time I run at 15 knots or less.

The rivet backs are inaccessible; I would assume the factory did not install backing plates or washers. I would love to perform the repair with stainless steel bolts but that would require me to carve out the floatation for the gunwales and through bolt the hull to repair the seat pedestals. Since the boat is relatively new, I was thinking the factory would step in.

If I hear nothing from the Reps and nobody else has experienced similar failures with a satisfactory repair success-path, I’m going to drill out all the rivets. Then pry the pieces apart with wedges far enough to get some 5200 in there. Finish it with stainless pan head screws.

Byrdman · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:40 am Post subject:

Paul: I am not sure who you bought your boat from, but there has also been a turnover in factory reps as I have been informed. Bruce is no longer the factory rep down that way. Check with you dealership via the phone and ask who the new guy is. Your boat is only a 04 year and should not be having the issue I do not believe.

I will send you an email with my home email that you can email me the pics and I will post them for you.

On the C-Dory factory site they have the following contact numbers and indicate they do handle questions via email, but I think you have waited long enough without a reply. I see Scot Reynolds on here now and then here of late, use to see his Father Rich on here and Tom Latham pops in now and then too. I would just give them a call. Please let us know what you hear. Also looking at the event link on the factroy site it does appear that there are several boat shows now taking place over on the eastern side so who knows who all may be at the boat shows now too.

Byrdman

FROM THE C-DORY FACTORY SITE:
For technical information, please call 253-839-0222 or email a factory representative. We are available to answer any questions you have about our products.

Most questions can be handled by e-mail. If your communication requires a lengthy response, please provide us with your phone number and mailing address.

Pat Anderson · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:44 am Post subject:

You want to communcate with Bret Reynolds, who was the person who authorized the warranty repairs we recently had done, bretreynolds@c-dory.com, or his and Scot's dad, Rich. Rich's contact information, which he has posted on this site, is

Rich Reynolds
C-Dory Marine Group
Vice President/Owner
253-839-0222 Office
253-205-9925 Cell
richreynolds@c-dory.com

When Jeff was the guy, the absolutely best way to communicate was by calling his cell, because he was frequently at boat shows around the country.

Good luck and keep us posted!

hughpenk · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:57 am Post subject:

My 16 also has the rivet heads popping off. The prior owner replaced a few with 1 inch stainless self tapping # 12 oval head screws with stainless finish washers. They have held up well. This is where the gunnel attaches to the side panel that covers up the flotation foam. They may create a personel hazard if you put your hand up inside there for some reason as the end of the screws are a mean meat hook. They look alot better than the pop rivets for sure. I do have a missing rivet head down on the cock-pit floor attachment area also, but I try not to look at it as it is a zit I do not want to pop. I keep the cock-pit area bone dry by keeping the cover on the cock-pit when moored or in the heated garage during storage- just in case the bugger in not sealed right and H2O is able to permeate the floor/bottom.

naptime · Guest

My 16 Cruiser was delivered from the factory with the gunwale and fiberglass side attached with stainless steel screws, several of which had already pulled out. The dealer was able to removed a minimal amount of flotation foam and replace the screws with bolts. After two seasons of operation I have not had any additional screws come loose.

The bottom of the fiberglass panel which includes the seat support has rivets that attach the it to the hull. So far I have not had any rivet failures. In the future if rivet failures occur, the fix I may use (suggestions welcome) is to hollow out some of the balsa core below the rivet hole and fill with epoxy. Then drill a pilot hole in the epoxy, seal with 5200 and reattach the panel with stainless steel screws.

Capt. Jim · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject:

That you Joe? They say you went missing. Say it aint so Joe!

Dem rivets must be aluminium. The center post are corroded.
The area of concern is broken rivets in the cored floor.
Thanks to all for your suggestions. I think a drill, some 5200 and stainless screws might do the trick.

Byrdman · Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:29 am Post subject:

Paul: Here are your pics.

Byrdman · Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:36 am Post subject:

Paul: After looking at these pics...I see a bunch of wasted room behind these "shields"... on the side gunnels of the boat.

If I am not mistaken, and I well may be (check with the factory or someone who has really looked behind the panels).... you may be able to just get you a roto zip gizzmo, and cut some of this stuff out, giving you access all the way to the side of the boat hull. I feel sure mine was open in my earlier version and I liked it....but, I simply can not find my old pics... sorry. Not sure of the finish behind the sheilds, but it should look like the gel coat on the floors and other areas of your boat...unless some corners were cut, but it would seem harded to accomplish this when the individual is spraying the gel coat...maybe

As Dr. Bob has said for the items attached to the floor, you could just grind off the tops of the rivets, core drill the floor a bit, epoxy fill, then screw straight into the floor with 4200 sealant.

Byrdman

dotnmarty · Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject:

Well, Im missing one of those rivits at the top of the port side panel. They were all there until you started this thread. Disgust

oldgrowth · Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:08 am Post subject:

I have some photos in my Hull Extension Album of the side gunnels. They begin with photo 6 in the album. I also have photos of the area before the boat was cut in half but have not posted those photos. I believe the photos in the album will show everything you need.

There is flotation Styrofoam between the panels and the hull of the boat. This is where I installed my saddle tanks.

You can go to the album by clicking on the thumbnail.

________
Dave

c-tick · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:33 am Post subject:

I received a response from the factory. I believe the gentlemen’s name was Frank? He said he used to build 16 footers and knew exactly what I was talking about. The new boats have the seat pedestals glassed in now; that eliminates the hull rivet problem. He said there is no backing washers so just drill out the old rivets and replace them. Since they are unique rivets with heads about the size of a dime, he would send me enough to do the job. He was also going to send some sealant for the rivets into the hull. He suggested I also paint the heads of the rivets to prevent the corrosion. I sure hope I don’t damage my trailer when I drill out the hull rivets – just kidding. I’ll keep the post going until the repairs are complete.
C-Voyager – I went to your album and really liked that storage shelf above the front windshield.

Thanks everybody!
Cap’n Paul