Impact (?) of low sulphur fuel on diesel engines.

Casey

I know this is a bit off the C-Dory thread, but since many of us tow with diesel rig's, thought I'd post a question.

I'm wondering if any of you have read/thought about the impact of low sulphur fuel we're now buying - on you diesel engines.

A good friend (who is a very competent mechanic) recently sent me an article that tested the "lubricity" standards of various diesel supplements. Evidently with traditional diesel fuel, the lubricating quality of the fuel was quite helpful for performance, longevity, etc. Now that we have gone to "low sulphur" fuel, much of that lubricating quality has been lost and diesel engine owner's might want to consider adding some sort of diesel supplement to regain the lubricity qualities found earlier. (From what I understand, adding some of the supplements doesn't defeat the environmental aspects.)

Frankly, this is beyond my technical understanding but I'm sure there are folks on C-Brat's who will understand it, and they will Certainly have an opinion.

I would be interested to hear those thoughts.

I don't know how to post the article to C-Brat's, but plan to send it to Tyboo (hopefully he will temporarily post it for your review). I would also be happy to email the article to those who might be interested.

Casey Casebeer
C-Dory Naknek
lorencasebeer@aol.com

commander bill · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject:

Major subject issue that goes well beyond your towing rig. Although I have an extensive diesel engineering background I can only say the jury is still out on the broader subject. We are being told that newer engines will not be damaged by the newer ultra-low sulfur fuel (until recently fuel was called low sulfur fuel). Wheither it will hurt older engines is not certain. Lubricity issue could effect engine cylnders plus direct injectors or injection pump depending on which configureation you have. My powerstroke & both my Kubota tractors are not supposed to be damaged by new fuel but my truck mpg is lower with new fuel. I work in the nuclear power industry & larger older design engines are used for backup power. The main issue they are looking at is fuel heat capacity (newer fuel has less heat value = lower mpg). As such the onsite storage capacity will last a shorter number of days. These engines are torn down and rebuilt at regular intervals (needed or not) so lubricity/wear effect is not issue. If you use tax free farm fuel (dyed red) much of that is still older fuel (low sulfur vs. ultra low sulfur). Many farmers still use 30 year old deisels.

JamesTXSD · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:

Good timing, Casey - I was in the GMC service waiting room when I read your post. (Big Red is getting her 30,000 mile service done.) I asked the service writer about your question; his response: there should be no problem with newer trucks. Older diesels may have issues. I couldn't pin him down on what exactly constituted "older"... he just said, "Your 2006 is no problem."

Here's another thought on this subject for those interested in traveling to Mexico: Mexico has not implimented the ultra-low sulpher diesel. If you have a 2007 diesel, there will be a problem with that in Mexico. Some motorcoach manufacturers actually stocked up on 2006 motors just for this reason (caravan tours in MX are very popular).

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

al and judy · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: Ultra low sulphur diesel fuel

First the bottom line: Check with your vehicle/engine manufacturer on recommendations for fuel/additive useage. Now the rest of the story--I have an '04 Ford Super Duty 6.0L diesel and I have been using the recommended Motorcraft Cetane booster for almost a year now. This has increased my mileage approx .8 mpg, the truck starts faster and the emissions are lower. ALL of the vehicle manufacturers have done a great dis-service to their diesel customers by not informing them of how to compensate for the fuel changes. There is an excellent product (the name of it slips my mind at the moment) that is readily available at ALL Wal-Mart stores. It comes in a gray bottle for summer and general use and a white bottle for winter use (anti-gel formula.) With all these fuel additive products you use a few onces for so many gallons. SUPPOSEDLY, 2007 and newer engines are designed to perform just fine on the ultra-low sulphur fuels. (I think the 'ol Fram commercial says it best, "pay me now or pay me later"!) For the Ranger flotilla (and the new Venture owners) it would be wise to check with Yanmar on their fuel recommendations.

If you have a pre-'07 and don't think you need to treat your fuel you would be wise to check the price of a new injector pump and or the cost of replacing injectors!! Caveat emptor! Exclamation

thataway · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject:

It is my understanding that marine diesel is not manditated to be Ultra low sulfur for several more years.

It is not the absence of sulfur, but the process to remove the sulfur which reduces the lubricity and the decrease in energy output.

Are not the diesel formulators not adding more lubricating material? How about the old "put in a cup of marvel mystery oil"? There are ways of increasing the lubricity of fuels--what is being done by the manufactuers?

I have a 2000 7.3 power Stroke. So far running very well...but of course I am concerned. What do the fleets do?--They have many millions of dollars tied up in rigs which are running night and day delivering goods thruout the US.

commander bill · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject:

Doctor Bob, It is my understanding that the 7.3 powerstroke (if with Titanium injectors) was designed for the new Ultra low sulfur fuel well before the 2007 mandate. I also have a 2000 F250 Powerstroke and have had no problems (it has the new type injectors). By the way I get 24 mpg running below 60 mph without towing (mine is a 6 speed 2wd, 3.73 rear). However, I note about 1 mpg drop after new fuel came out. I still use dyed red farm diesel in my tractors even though both are supposed to handle the new fuel.

gljjr · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject:

I have a '93 F250 with the Navistar 7.3l. I've been alternating back and forth between BioDiesel and the new junk. I only alternate as the BioDiesel is a little hard to get. Otherwise the truck runs better on the Bio. I'm hoping the Bio will take care of the lubrication missing from the junk they are making us run now.

Bob, good idea running the Marvel as a fuel additive. I've also used ATF in the past for that. Laughing

Casey · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:47 am Post subject:

The study that I mentioned in the original post is available at:

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

Yo may find it interesting, and it shows the "lubricity" figures for a number of additives, including Marvel Mystery Oil, biodiesel, and others.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek

gljjr · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:06 am Post subject:

Casey thanks for posting the link. It looks like I'll have to try to run more Bio in my truck and maybe get some fuel additive to boot. Since it sits a lot I'm going to have to get something to combat moisture in the fuel. The truck runs much quieter on the Bio (Issaquah Grange sells 99% Bio). It starts harder than the old diesel but easier than the new ULSD stuff. And if it doesn't get plugged in in the winter you will have serious problems starting it!

oldgrowth · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:49 am Post subject:

I sure hope you are wrong about the new diesel because I would hate to wear out my 1972 Kubota and 1962 Massey Ferguson tractors prematurely.

________
Dave

Da Nag · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:07 am Post subject:

Heads up on bio-diesel - two issues.

1. If under warranty, check with your manufacturer for allowed blends. Many manufacturers only allow 5-10% blends; using B100 in some of these vehicles may cause problems with warranty coverage. Plenty of people use B100 despite manufacturer's warnings, but it's up to you to decide if a battle with your service manager is worth it or not.

2. Assuming you have only run regular diesel through your truck and have a few miles on it, after running your first tank of bio-diesel, change your fuel filter(s)! Biodiesel will act as a solvent, cleaning an incredible amount of crud out of your fuel system. This is good thing, but you want to get that initial trapping of crud out of the fuel system.

My 1997 PowerStroke loves B100 - it runs way quieter and smoother. Some folks have reported a very minor loss of power with biodiesel, but I've not noticed it.

gljjr · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject:

Bill,

I don't have B100 but B99. Same thing with my truck. It runs way better on the B99 but is a little harder to start in the morning. Also much quieter on the engine and I have noticed a slight loss (About 1mpg) in fuel mileage over the older #2 diesel (I haven't checked it with the ULSD) but not in power.

If it weren't so hard to get I would run it all the time. Unfortunately the Grange has their pump inside their compound so you have to get it during their office hours and that doesn't coincide with my usage of the truck very well.

Da Nag · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject:

gljjr · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject:

gljjr · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:

Also, since I never run the tanks below 1/4 on the truck, hopefully i will retain the benefits of the bio for several tanks later. Wink