C-dory 22/Trophy 2359 Hardtop/Bayliner Discovery 192

[nesibus]

I'm considering one of these boats, the ONLY thing I like better about the trophy over the c-dory is the cuddy cabin..and possibly cockpit.

I'd like peoples opinions on which decision I should go with based off of their knowledge of pros/cons of one or both boats.

The boat will be mainly used for cruising, long day trips, maybe an overnighter. I know the c-dory is good on fuel, I do not know about the trophy.

The only reason I'm wanting the 192 is to get a diesel motor in it. That way I know I have a motor more reliable than the boat, and it will outlast it.

[tsturm]

[snal]

Never owned a Bayliner, but lots of friends have....I wouldn't trade my 22' C dory for any 4 Bayliners!

[gljjr]

The 2359 will likely be much harder on fuel (even with the diesel). It's living area is not as comforable IMHO due to the highly raised dinette area. To me fishing out of them would be about the same.

I think you would find that after a day in rough water in each boat you will be more relaxed and comfortable with the C-Dory. This will be due to the stable ride the dory hull gives you. Also the fact that you are able to run "on step" at slower speeds with the C-Dory thus beating you up less.

To me the Discovery isn't even in the same league as the other two. Completely different kind of boat.

[bshillam]

The wife and I recently have made a committment to the CD22. I gave the 2359 and the CD22 a very serious look. Reasons why we went with the CD22 that influenced our decision are as follows:
1. More likely higher resale (if we trade for a larger CD)
2. Better liveable space in the cabin
3. Better fuel mileage.
4. Cost of repairs and maintenance should be lower on the CD due to outboards
5. Heat through the walas will keep hours down on the motors when we don't need to run them.
6. Great support through the internet C-brats.
7. It fits our slow and enjoy the moment attitude vs get there now attitude.
8. Let face it the Dory is a better looking boat too.
9. As new Honda is offering a 5 year warranty on their motors and better financing. 6.5%

The pros just outweight the cons on the CD.

The trophy is a great boat. I've been told they handle the water well. With their hulls they are set up for higher speeds. However, keep in mind that Bayliner produces so many more of these boats thus your resale will be greatly depreciated. If your not planning on ever getting rid of it then neither would be a problem.

Again - I was on both sides of the fence.

[RJD Wannabe]

Check out what a 15 year old Bayliner/Trophy is like vs a 15 year old C-Dory. Fit, finish, durability and resale. Not to mention mpg over the long haul. I almost bought a Trophy about 10 years ago, until I really "got under the hood"

[nesibus]

Thanks for the answers, I do believe the c-dory will be my choice when it comes time to buy. I like the fact people are saying it has a good bit of room inside it, I can't tell from pictures.

I will be making a trip to Florida to get a test ride in one, I'm in Texas so we have no local dealers.

[carl]

Are you telling me that members of the c-brats site are recommending a c-dory over some other boat? That's wild!

I just checked out a 1981 26 foot bayliner explorer today. Kind of a trophy top on a mostly-displacement hull. They were asking $5000 for it. It seemed surprisingly sound for its age/price. Although it suffers from all that furry liner so many manufacturers enjoy sticking on the walls.

I think the new trophies no longer carry the bayliner name because everyone "in the know" seems to hate bayliners.

I may buy the old bayliner and put some c-dory decals on it.

[thataway]

There was only one documented Bayliner where a hull split--and that was over 20 years ago. Bayliners are a lot of boat for the money. I owned one at one point as a "use boat" while we were building boats. It did exactly what we wanted it to do--and at that time a 23 footer which slept 4, and had an enclosed head, cost about $11,000--sold it two years later for a thousand less than we paid...

About 6 years ago we were looking for an express cruiser, and looked again at the Bayliners--we looked at ones which were 2 to 3 years old, and they had not aged well--even sitting on dealer's lots, never used.

The "Discovery" is a low end, get in the water boat--and really a runabout with a small cuddy--much different than the Trophy and C D.

The Trophy boats are not actually Bayliners any more--different division and respectable boats. We looked at several which were hurricane damaged and they held up as well as Sea Rays or Regulators etc.

The problem with both of the Bayliner and the Trophy is the outdrive. I don't like them--I have owned three and will never own another one. You cannot get them out of the water, as you can an outboard. There are the maintance issues of an engine which is not designed for salt water use--with the Risers and manufolds. You cannot run an outdrive in an "up" attitude in shoal water as you can an outboard.

The quality of the C Dory is better than the Trophy and resale will be much better. Even with the diesel--I would not say that these are economical to run. I suspect that you will find that many outboards in today's world will outlive the the diesel in an outdrive configuration. The Suzuki's are getting longivity as good as diesels in commercial operation.

The Explorer Series by Bayliner are interesting boats--they are grossly underpowered--intentionally--again they have the outdrive problems. There may also be parts problems, depending on the engine conversion and outdrive configuration. They were an answer to the fuel crunch and recesson of the late 70's--and were briefly popular. I don't know how well the hulls have held up. I would be looking at possiable soft decks, hull blistering if the boat was kept in the water, and the hull to deck joint--especially looking for leaks. But for a cheap boat--probably are a good buy--if you can keep the engine/outdrive going at low costs.

[mikeporterinmd]

There's hardly any comparison in terms of maintenance and ease of
performing it between any sort of I/O setup vs. outboard.

Anyhow, I like the fact that I can't even get a foot into the "bildge" on the
CD-22, let alone have to crawl down into it work on something.

Mike

[matt_unique]

I owned the Bayliner Capri 1952 for the last 8 seasons. (The Capri 1952 is the predecessor to the Discovery 192). The rumors about Bayliner's falling apart is complete nonsense. The resale value is less but so is the purchase price. The Discovery even with a diesel will be A LOT less than the C-22. What matters in resale is the % in loss from what you paid to buy it vs. the price when you sell it. With that being said, my loss after 8 years of hard use was 40%. This is not a great resale %, but most people hear about a year 2000 Sea Ray 25' cruiser going for $50,000 and the same size Bayliner going for $30,000...what horrible resale!" The resale dollar is not what matters but again the % of loss from purchase to sale.

Here's the most objective review of the boats I can provide.....The Discovery 192 has an I/O of course. This means bellows, impellor pump, gimble bearing, etc. which need to be replaced after 5-7 seasons. This will cost $1000. The canvas will look good for 5 seasons and will cost $1400 to replace. The bow wander in these things is unreal...to cruise at hull speed will require significant, constant correction to remain straight. I always hated that in my boat. The canvas top is stand-up height, but again it's canvas. I vowed I would never again own a boat that requires canvas to keep occupants dry and comfortable. My boat had the Mercruiser 3.0L carbed engine and was underpowered. I will never again own a carbed engine. The carb needed to be rebuilt every season for the last three seasons. With that being said, (my catch phrase for this note it seems), the boat was a TANK! I have cruised out to 23 miles from shore with gear for three technical divers (max load capacity for the boat). I have even slept 4 adults on this boat! Ha ha - but that was interesting. The forward v-berth is surprisingly large and very comfortable for two people. The seats in the cockput lay flat and you can at least lay there and rest...but I could never personally actually fall asleep on them. The cockpit is cramped with the engine cover. The boat will pound like crazy in the seas (as will some of the others you mention). My boat carried 23 G of fuel which can be problematic depending upon your cruising desires. I found her to be a reliable boat overall, but it became awfully small awfully fast on the ocean.

I have cruised on the Trophy 2359. I was very impressed with the boat from a cruising and space perspective. The cabin is very nice and spacious. The big thing for me was the head...it's located right in the middle of the forward cabin area. Either you leave the center cushion up or you have to remove it before you use the head. I wanted an enclosed head....that should be a private affair The visibility from the cockpit was quite good. I don't know anything about the maintenance issues since I was only an occassional guest.

The C-22 would likely pound like crazy, perhaps worse than both of the above boats due to the flat bottom. However the great advantages are the outboards, fully enclosed stand-up pilot house cabin, and the single hull to cabin building process. The Bayliners above have brackets connecting the hull to the cabin top.

From my research and experience a straight inboard diesel is the most reliable engine/drive configuration, followed by fuel injected outboards, and carbed I/O's as the least reliable.

I would take a cruise in the C-22 in the usual seas you will be cruising and decide from there.

[patrick and linda]

i currently own a 2001 2352 trophy. (purchased new) has the 5.7L merc i/o 250hp. boat runs and operates great. if the 2359 came with outboards i'd have to really think about which boat to buy, but it doesn't, so outboards rule the day for me. the trophy is a walk around, great access to the bow for anchoring, setting fenders, cleaning and sitting. those features are not possible, or at least, not to the same extent, on the c-dory.
resale stinks on most all boats so no sense beating that dead horse.
i'd recommend outboards for the ease of maintenance and durability. as always, would also recommend twins.
best regards
pat

[al and judy]

Just for what it's worth (and that aint much) I was at good 'ol Fred Meyers filling up the truck the other day when a guy came in towing a 2359. Just for the sake of conversation I asked him how he liked it---his immediate comment was, "I should have bought the C-Dory!"

[Bartman]

Long-time lurker here. I wanted a C-Dory but thought I couldn't afford one. So three years ago I bought a very nice, 14 year old Trophy 2159 (similar to 2359, just 2' shorter) that only had about 400 hours on the 4.3 V-6 motor. It was very clean and only cost me $12,500. A similar condition and age 22 Cruiser would surely have cost me $30,000 plus. It was a very nice boat but it seemed like every time I turned around I had to throw a $500 bill into it. Gimble bearing, FWC tank, winterizing, tune-up, you name it. Didn't seem to matter what, it cost $400 to $500. Plus a major aggravation for me was that once it was winterized, it was out of commission until the spring for all practical purposes. Draining of the cooling hoses below the engine was a job for a very skinny acrobat with long, spindly arms. Same for oil filter changes. Minimum planing speed was about 20 mph, but it was happiest at about 22 mph. That leaves a big gap between displacement cruising and planing cruising. Wandering at slow speed? Big time. I got that under control pretty well by adding a "Ruddersafe" attachment which worked quite well.

Bottom line is that I used the boat for two years making several great Puget Sound cruising trips and some shorter, more nearby junkets. It was a nice boat but very expensive to own and maintain. I did okay on the resale, but my next cruiser will definitely be an outboard. Right now I'm entertaining myself with a jet pump skiff but am always looking out for a "cheap" C-Dory to present itself. There's one right now on the right side of the country for $22K but it's too far away for me.

Bartman

[Bartman]

Several other negatives of the Trophy came to mind after my earlier post. Most of the "systems", and there are more on a trophy than on most C-Dories, are buried deep in the bilges, under the cabin liner or in the engine compartment, where it is very difficult to get to them. You have to be skinny, flexible and skilled to be a do-it-yourself wrencher on these boats.

I almost sunk my boat once because I forgot to put in the drain plug. Stupid, I know, but because you don't see the water coming in, it's almost too late before you know it. Had a similar, but not quite as severe a problem due to cockpit scuppers being old and stiff. (Bilge pump had been wired by previous owner to only come on when switched on).

Bartman