Camper Back / Canvas Work

Rock-C · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject: Camper Back / Canvas Work

I'm going to try this again under a different topic. Idea

Chuckpacific, I'm also interested in a canvas enclosure for the back of our boat. Thanks Gary on Minni Swann for the reply, I checked out your photos on the C-Dog site. Looks good. Thumbs Up

I think I would like the cover to extend to the end of the transom, for shade, and still have the back window drop down to the front of the motor well.
Hopefully we will get some C-Brats to chime in on what works and what doesn't. Where have they had the work done and ball park cost.
I called a local top shop, he had never seen or heard of a C-Dory before, and he gave me an estimate of $1200. Shocked

Seems kind of high. Cry

Les Lampman · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:55 pm Post subject:

Hi Terry,

There are as many ways to build canvas tops/enclosures as there are houses; you can run the gamut from a standardized 'spec' home to a full-blown 'custom' model.

The King Marine camper canvas is a good base for comparison. King has the patterns for the CD22 and doesn't have to custom fit each boat and they have dedicated seamstresses; the pattern and installation folks don't do the production sewing. This all helps keep costs down. The basic King camper canvas with aluminum bows, two removable side panels and one removable back panel is $960. Going to stainless bows (a good thing IMHO) adds $155. The quality of the work done by King is very good; far surpassing the typical "factory" top on most boats.

The shop that is doing our custom canvas work (when 'standardized' versions aren't the customer's choice) adds many features to the top which we designed in..all stainless framework, quick release bow fittings, which are $80 more on the King top (to facilitate removal of the framework), solid struts to tension the top and hold the framework up out of the way when the top material is removed. A zipper across the forward end of the top material to facilitate dropping the top (or accessing the cabin top) without having to slide it completely out of the awning track to one side. The side panels are split into 3 sections so that you don't have to unsnap anything to get in and out of the boat (something I hate with cold fingers and full hands); and the zipper in the top (which zips toward the center) means you don't have to duck under the low sides. The individual small panels stow easier and you only have to unzip a small section (which is removable) to enter or exit the cockpit. The back curtain is in three sections; the center section matching the width of the motorwell with a narrower section on each outboard end; each of the three sections is individually removable. This allows access to the motorwell or to the lazarette lockers without undoing a 1-piece back curtain. The curtain doesn't snap at the bottom because it's difficult to reach snaps that are on the outside from the inside; instead the curtain is held with bungee loops which fasten onto lashing hooks. This is very easy to do from inside and pulls the curtain nicely taut when hooked. The clear vinyl material used for the windows is .030 pressed and polished sheet material rather than the more common .020 rolled clear vinyl; it has much more clarity and doesn't allow the curtains to move around as much in the wind. The clear 'glass' in the back curtain drops all the way to the top of the motorwell so that you can see the motor(s) from the helm seat. All-totalled you have 9 small panels to stow (the forward one on either side being really small) rather than 3 large ones when the side and back curtains come off (although they could be left zipped together). Each of the panels is individually and completely removable so when you don't want one you can stow it away rather than having to roll it up on the side or flip it over the top (where the wind usually flips it back down). Once the side and back curtains are removed the top itself unzips and comes off in a matter of seconds and the framework remains standing in place and does not drop into the motorwell.

This is more expensive at $1500; whether or not it's worth the extra expense is at the discretion of the buyer. I think it's an awfully full-featured top for a very fair price. [As a side note: this price is direct from the Canvas Riggers...we don't sell them per se and there is no markup on our part.]

So depending on the complexity of the design, the quality of materials used (the top/curtain material it self, the clear vinyl, the zippers, the snaps, the binding, the bows (framework), and the top fittings (eye ends, jaw slides, supports, etc)), the $1200 you were quoted seems right in the "ballpark". This is a very labor intensive thing to do (I can vouch for that having done it myself professionally); you can bend some aluminum tubing in the shop (stainless is a different deal) and sew up Sunbrella on most home sewing machines but most folks will be totally surprised at just how long it takes to pattern the thing and then sew it up.

Sawdust · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:59 pm Post subject:

Terry,

My favorite camper back to date is the one on Bill's beautiful new Da Nag. Your 1,200 buck estimate is in the ball park, but the number varies quite a bit with the quality of material and what is included in the price. 1,500-2,000 bucks is the going price in this area for absolute top-of-the line installations - the high end figure includes inside custom curtains. I've been checking carefully because I'm in the market too, and that's a lot of bucks. I want one!

Les at EQ owned his own canvas shop and is a good person to check with...

Dusty

Sawdust · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject:

Sorry I doubled! Supposed to be a day off for Les!!

Dusty

Rock-C · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:33 pm Post subject:

"Ask and you shall receive"
Once again, Les & Dusty are the definitive (tag team) answer man. Thanks for the low down. King Marine sounds like top of the line. If money were not an issue......
I may have to wait a year or two. We bought Rock-C less than a year ago. and that pretty much drained the boating piggy bank.
Still like to hear from others on what features they like and what they would do differently.

Minnow · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:36 am Post subject:

Has King Marine made patterns for the 25's?

Pat Anderson · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:37 am Post subject:

What we would do differently? We have the standard King Marine setup. We did not do a lot of research, we just went to King Marine and asked them to install "a camperback" - the only choice we made consciously was the color. Here is the list of mistakes to avoid:

1. Absolutely, unequivocally - get the stainless supports with the solid struts and quick releases instead of the straps. This is the most important one.

2. If you have a choice - bungees instead of snaps for the motorwell fasteners. I would even ask King Marine to do this, there is no reason they can't.

3. SOME kind of opening panel in each side so you can get in and out easily. King can put these in too.

C-Hawk · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject:

Rock-C

We had our cover made to extend all the way back. You can see it in Fishtales photo album. The larger cover makes it feel very roomy when in the cockpit on a raiy day.
We had see-through and solid covers made for the inside of the cabin windows, and covers made for the engines.

C-Dragon · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject:

We have had two covers in 10 years. Contact Superior Design Top Shop in Longview, WA Tel. 360.575.9796. They came to our boat and did a great job at a reasonable price. We have two sets of side and back panels. One unit has fine mesh screening and the other plastic windows. This affords coverage for insect or foul weather. The side panels are two part which gives us easy entry/exit to the boat. Our top swoops upward to provide a room nearly 7' high. You're getting great advice from other C-Brats about the structure. I would add that across the top forward section that attaches to the roof insist on turn fasteners instead of snap connections. This installation makes it easy to remove the camper top for winter storage. Our cost was $1200. If you come to Portland and would like to see the camper back installation, we'd be pleased to show it. (That is if the boat isn't sold!) We're getting a 25' C-Dory soon.

Otter-BelleHavenMarina · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject:

Any east coast / mid-Atlantic canvas shops that C-Dory owners have used with good success? Thanks,
Tom

El and Bill · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:26 pm Post subject:

We have a roll up window in the aft panel of our Camperback; and also a roll up bug screen, for that space when the window is rolled up. Great circulation through the cabin and cockpit on those buggy nights.

Casey · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject: Camperback Canvas outfit...

After doing a lot of "checking" I opted to return to King Canvas for our recently completed canvas job. Overall, I've very happy with the work.

Prior to having King estimate the job, I checked with a custom canvas shop at Bigwater, UT (near lake Powell, closer to home...). Believe it or not - they wanted $4850. for the whole job. Yeowooo!!!

Our King canvas came to $1610 installed. This inclued .30 plastic (upgraded windows) all around, Sunbrella Seatest (waterproof, not just water repellant...) on the top, stainless all around, quick release brackets, hard legs on the back, and sun/bug screens that can be inserted in lieu of the windows. it has the same zipper type of connection to the cabin that Les described earlier. It sounds very much like the job Les described - but the only real difference is that our aft window (and screen...) is one large piece. That's nice from a viewing perspective, but it one BIG piece to try to roll-up! On yea, one other thing - I asked Dave King to remodel the after curtain so it will enclose the lazarettes and come down about half way across the splash well.

El and Bill · Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a great job, Casey -- looking forward to seeing it and you folks next week on Powell.

Rock-C · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:13 am Post subject:

C-Dragon
So your moving up to one of the cruise ships. Congratulations.
I ran across a photo of C-Dragon, might have been in the boats for sale thread, I like the way the camper top comes farther back over the transom.
Good luck on selling the 22 footer. It should not be much of a problem with the reputation C-Dory has.

Chuckpacific · Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:26 pm Post subject: canvas top

Terry (Rock C),

I contacted several people up here about a canvas top and finally settled on Carols' Custom Canvas (on Marine Drive). Gordon (of Carol's) visited me at my slip on Tomahawk Island and ended up quoting the lowest price on the specialized top I wanted. My top extends almost to the end of the boat and has no side curtains. When not in use it folds and stows in back held off the floor by the inside steps. I always have a cover over the back of the boat. I was very satisfied with the price and workmanship and would recommend Carol's to any C-Brats.

Chuck