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Dead Battery - ???
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tom&shan



Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 316

Photos: Dakota
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
... when the battery is too small. Since this is not currently happening and the battery and alternator seem to be in balance this is not a problem.

Why would it change with the same batteries? I have not heard the noise recently, but the first few times I went out on the boat it was very distinct, almost like a ticking clock, and loud enough to be heard from the helm.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The starting battery is charged first and when its voltage reaches the threshold, the relay closes. If the house battery is severely discharged it can lower the voltage to a point where the relay opens, then as the voltage increases, closes--back and forth. If initially the battery was low, this could have happened. I don't know if your relay is easily setable, as the ACR are. It could be that the batteries were marginally charged at first, and now as they are used have come up to capacity???

The other possibility is that there was a defect as suggested and increased resistance in the switch or some part of the circuit--and that this is no longer present--that perhaps contacts have seated in???

Not sure, without doing tests, and even now these may not tell what was happening.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
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gljjr



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm bringing this back up to the top as I am currently looking at getting one of these switch panels.

Correct me if I'm wrong but according to the wiring diagram posted on the BEP site the correct operation of this is to turn the Start and House battery ON and leave the Parallel switch off (Except in an emergency where the Start battery is dead). Also, when charging the batteries with an onboard charger (or Solar charger) you want to only have the Start battery switch on.

Has anyone been using this system with more than just two batteries? I would like to have 2 Engine batteries and 2 house batteries.

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mark&diana



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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City/Region: Beaverton
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully I have understood your question correctly. I have a three batteries - two starting and one house (located beneath the forward dinette seat) hooked up to a three battery VSR cluster. The VSR is located in the transom, assessilbe through the port lazarette (see photo).

You are correct that to switch on the batteries, I turn the house and starting batteries ON and leave the Parallel switch OFF (except in emergeny).

Can't seem to get the knack of 'embedding' the photo - but should be able to clink on this link. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album492&id=IMG_8412&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

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gljjr



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark.



So in looking at this photo it looks like you added an extra VSR and battery switch. Do you have a wiring diagram of how you wired it up? I was thinking of that but if the second VSR and switch aren't needed then I would prefer not to purchase them as they are spendy indeed.
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gljjr



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACH! Never mind. I forgot that you had twin outboards VS my single inboard/outboard. Thus you have 1 battery for each motor plus your House.

What I'm trying to do is to run 2 starter batteries for my main engine plus 2 house batteries. So 1 battery for the engine is primary and 1 is secondary but stays charged via a VSR. I think I figured out what I need. If I use the BEP 714-100A for the starting batteries and then get another VSR and battery switch I should be able to make it so that I can charge both starter batteries plus the House batteries. Hmmm... This'll be a little tricky. Well back to cleaning the bilge out so I can drop the new motor in.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been using the pannels, because my boats already have the 1,2 all off switches. With the twin engine boat, I have two house banks--which can be paralled if necessary. One house bank (2 batteries) runs the refigerator, the other, single battery, runs the actual house. Two starting batteries. This has two of the relays--one for each bank.

The C Dory 25 has one starting battery and two house banks--one for the inferverter and refigerator, the other for the "house"--they are manually combined--for charging, or just inverter use, or parallel with the house battery. The relay is between the single start battery and the single house battery. The idea is to always leave the starting battery, and have the house battery hooked up for the lights, electronics etc. Being isolated from the starting battery at start, it avoids the electronics crashes, and potential spikes of voltage when you start the engine. As soon as the start battery voltage is up to 13.3 volts, the house battery starts to charge.
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gljjr



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob.

Yeah, this has the 1, 2, All, Off Perko switch on it already. But since I'm going to have to rewire the hole engine compartment anyway I wanted to move the batteries out of the engine compartment and up into some box seats on the deck. So I would have room to put 2 Group 27 batteries in each new seat box. The existing switch is down in my engine compartment under a very heavy engine cover. So I was going to remove it and put one the switch panel above one of the seats on a cover in front of the transom. This way they would be readily able to be switched on/off without having to get into the engine compartment. I guess I could still use the Perko switch along with the VSR's. I'll have to think on it. For now I just need to get the boat running and in the water! Rolling Eyes
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tom&shan



Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: RIP Optima Reply with quote

When I started this thread, it was July and my start battery was dead. This issue was been following me all year, with the battery going dead on a regular basis. Last month I replaced the VSR switch, thinking it might not be switching correctly between the House and Starter battery. Still have the problem with the Starter battery dead each weekend. Last week I took it out of the boat and took it home to charge it. Brought it back this week, put it in the boat - wont start the engine. So now it looks like the battery may of discharged often enough to no longer hold a charge. 18 month warrenty on the battery, but it looks like its pro-rated.
Question - should I replace it with a Optima or go with something else? My thought is until I can figure out what is going on - why spend that kind of money for a battery that goes dead in 5 months.

Cheers,
Tom
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom-

Personally, I'd buy which ever battery I wanted, but put another switch inline with the positive feed out cable to protect my investment.

I'd use a simple car / marine type switch like this




which can be bought very cheaply online through a variety of sources. I wouldn't waste money on a Hella brand marine version, myself, but one that could be bought for around $10. Well worth it on a $60-$200 battery when you have a mystery drain-down problem!

Do you know anybody that can track down this electrical "lead" with a digital VOM meter?

Cheers!

Joe.

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"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tlhe most obivious problem is that the engine start battery was defective from the beginning. What did you find when you put an amp-meter on the starting battery? What is the voltage of the battery when you come down before you attempt to start the engine?

I looked at the Optima and decided to continue to use lead acid for my engine start batteries, and AGM for the house (which are located inside of the boat's cabin). I realize that there are potentailly some problems with mixing AGM and flooded lead acid batteries. However, the charging voltage is satisfactory for both, and I don't leave them combined when I am not on the boat. We have combiners, plus switches. Each battery is disconnected when we leave the boat.

I have no experience with the Optima, but my conclusion was that there were some other AGM's which were higher capacity and less cost. I have heard of several other Optima (as well as other batteries) being DOA.
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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that the lead-acid batteries are fine for the job they do in my boat...4 years old now and ready to exchange the set... but I am looking at the Optima batteries because of their light weight.... My boat always...leans to the starboard side.... and I am trying to locate weight on that side to remove.

Joel
SEA3PO
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marvin4239



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I experienced the clacking with my 16 that was equiped with the BEP vsr setup. When the batteries were fully charged it wasn't and issue. I had a 12volt cooler that drew 3 amps and at idle with the cooler plugged in the clacking would occur. If I unplugged the cooler it would quit. If I increased the RPM the engine alternator seemed to take the load and the clacking quit. I figured the relay couldn't last long operating like that. I traded it before really checking out the problem. When I had my 22 set up I had a 1 2 both off switch installed I figured less was better.
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Jack in Alaska



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A timely subject for me...........
I have had one battery with everything connected to it for all uses on my boat including an elec. pot puller, all electronics and elec. start kicker, elect. reels etc. I leave it on the boat with everything connected all winter(6-7 mo.) and the motor starts in the spring w/o fail and has for 24 yrs. I am fussy to a fault on keeping connections clean. I do carry another new, fully charged battery but not connected just in case. I throw both batts. away every 2-3 yrs. and replace them. In the long run they are cheap insurance. I then use them in my old truck.

That, i know, is not a good or safe long term plan so I intend to buy the parts/pieces to have two batts. with a switch when i plunk my boat this coming spring. This thread has given me the ideas etc. on how to do it and I agree with Marvin..less is better. I just have had too much less for too long. Thanks for the info.
As someone said on another thread...."our lives are coming to a close and there is no need to hurry the process by doing dumb things".

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On the HIGH TIDE-II, wife Carolyn and I.....Another summer fishing on the HIGH TIDE II in the Cook Inlet at Cape Ninilchik, Alaska.

HIGH TIDE-II; 2005 26' ProAngler; 2003 200 Honda / 2009 9.9 Honda high thrust
No. CD026021I405; AK-5008-AK
MSSI No. 338143486(cancelled)

HIGH TIDE; 1983 Angler Classic 22'; 90 Honda/ 9.9 Tohatsu-sold 2009 to son Dan (flatfishfool)
Stolen & stripped in Aug. 18
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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack...I love yer reasoning.... I have 2 batteries...one is connected to one motor, the other is connected to the house and the motor....no on/off switches... nothing.... and they are still fine after 4 years...but it is time to change.... The dealer (Elco) told me that there was a problem connecting the two Yamaha motors together... would ruin the alternators if they were not isolated......but the no on/off switch omission was just being cheep I think...

Joel
SEA3PO
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