Towing: Size Matters

Wayne McCown · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: Towing: Size Matters

A week ago, I read an interesting discussion re towing large boats/trailers vs. smaller tows. I can't find that thread now, but I have been thinking about this discussion and want to share a few thoughts based on my own experience.

I think one CAN get comfortable (and fairly expert at) towing a large boat/trailer. BUT, I also know that a smaller tow is much easier. We own five trailers, including a 32' fifth wheel and a 13' SCAMP trailer. We can take the SCAMP anywhere a car can go; not so, the fifth wheel.

At least four variables affect the towing experience: weight, height, width and length. A fifth (and very important one) is the tow vehicle.

I find towing the CD-22 very easy when coupled to my 3/4 HD 4WD Silverado, but more difficult with my Toyota Tacoma (2WD). The sight lines are such around the boat that it is not necessary to use towing mirrors (although I would do so for a long cross-country trip). Although the combined length, and the height and width are similar to that of the 32' fifth wheel in tow, the loaded weight of the CD is half and the frontage to the wind considerably less, so gas mileage is better by 3-4 mpg.

flagold · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:06 am Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject:

I like a large and heavy tow vehicle. Less tail wagging the dog! I stopped at 3 camp grounds on the way back from New Jersey with the CD 25. The first had to ask the owner if they would allow a boat--finally let me have the narrowest space available--no-one else wanted it, because they couldn't use their "slide outs". The second one, questioned it, but no reall hassel. The third was a marina/camp ground. Not only was I welcomed, but the owner gave me the best camping spot, and wanted a tour of the boat. (of course if I had arrived with my 30 foot RV or Road trek 19 towing a boat, I would not have been questioned).

CTYankee · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject:

Hi Wayne,

I have a towing question. Normally I tow my 22' C-Dory locally with a 99' Toyota 4Runner with the small V6 (183HP) rated for 5000 lbs towing. The ride is very rough and jerky and I don't like to tow over 100 miles because the transmission gets very hot and the little engine is working too hard. It's also a little light when braking hard. For distance trips I use the Motorhome with a V10 Ford, and that vehicle doesn't even know the boat is there. No comparison.

I have been casting about for a new vehicle, and of course I love the Toyota because of it's reliability. I test drove a new 07' 4Runner recently with the V6 236hp engine, and it seemed much more comfortable and powerful. The dealer was telling me the V6 was plenty strong enough and the new 4Runner was much bigger and heavier than the older models. The wheel base is only 4 inches longer and I'm wondering if that will make a difference. The V8 4Runner is rated for 7000 lbs and may make more sense, but then I've still got the short (109") wheelbase. I don't like the AWD of the V8...I prefer on demand 4WD.

My question is, how long is the Tacoma wheel base, and what size engine do you have? Do you experience the jerkiness of the 4Runner? I'd like to get a vehicle with a longer wheelbase, but I need the short turning radius on my driveway.

Any comments are welcome. I'm trying to talk the dealer into letting me test tow the boat, but he is reluclant to use his new truck for my test. Confused

Thanks for your help.

Dun (CTYankee)

El and Bill · Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject:

Dun -
We have a four-door Toyota Tundra with a cap over the bed. Great towing boat, we can 'camp' in the back (have a mattress permanently set in the bed), and the four-door with comfy backseats is perfect for carrying grandkids. Great vehicle and the second Toyota pickup we've had (the first went through us and two of our kids and is still cruising the streets of Chicago -- and it's an '83)!
On the road towing Halcyon, we use the boat for an RV. Never had a problem in any campground -- fed or state parks, or private campgrounds.

Hoop · Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:16 am Post subject:

Dun,

I'll wade in here.

I have a 2004 Toyota 4Runner with 6 cylinder engine and tow a (low profile) 17 foot Boston Whaler. Gross weight of the boat and trailer is upwards of 2500 lbs; call it 3000 lbs. Tow capacity of my 4Runner is 5000 lbs, and I think it is because of the design of the hitch. Hitch design on the V8 at the time was different (V8 was rated for towing 7500 lbs), and now all 4Runners seem to come with the same hitch.

There is plenty of power there, but not a lot of braking.

In California, I bought the boat/trailer without trailer brakes (not technically required) but ended up adding them; the 4Runner really appreciated having good brakes on the trailer and handles much better. Toyota manual did recommend brakes on any towed load over 1500 lbs I recall.

I also believe that my Toyota manual recommends a sway control device, though it doesn't distinguish between trailer types. Boat trailers of course have longer distance from hitch to wheels and less likelihood to fishtale, I hypothesize. I do not have a sway control device and have experienced no problems.

It is a great vehicle for our purposes.

Now the boat is not a C-Dory and doesn't have the C-Dory amenities, hence the reason for my lurking here.

Best regards,

Wayne McCown · Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Reply to Dun

Hi, Dun:

You asked about my Toyota PU, and my towing experience with the CD-22.

My Toyota PU is a 1995 (only 58,000 miles) with extended cab: the wheelbase (my measurement, center of wheel to wheel) is 125". I have no trouble with "bucking": it tows the CD-22 smoothly.

My Toyota PU has the V6 engine (206 cu. in.) with AT, and is rated to tow at 5000#. I have adequate engine power.

But...the CD-22 feels like "a heavy load back there," compared to two other trailers I tow behind it. Pulling the CD-22 with my Sliverado 3/4 HD PU feels much safer.

Here's the clincher: I have trouble getting the CD-22 back up the ramp with the Toyota. The Silverado "walks out" (even without using the 4WD, which I also have avaialble if needed). With the Toyota, I have to "burn rubber" (on the wet ramp) and keep burning it, to get out of the hole. Not a good scene, and this is on a good, modestly inclined ramp. I worry about getting out at all at other ramps.

Note: I have plenty of engine power: that's not the issue. It's traction. I probably could add weight at the back end of the PU bed to solve this problem, but since I have a good alternative available (the Silverado), I have not bothered to experiment further.

Cordially, Wayne

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

Size, weight, gearing, # of wheels driven, it all matters.

My Durango (5.9l) tows my CD-22 on the tandem tailer just fine at 65 mph and below. Launching and retrieving are a cinch, but sometimes made exciting by 1/4" gravel on top of the asphalt ramp that sometimes gives you Those Old Ball Bearing Blues!

The Durango is rated at 7500 lbs, and I can even trail, launch and retrieve my Sea Ray with it. For the S-R, I use the low ratio 4-wheel drive on the ramp, and just limit myself to about 50 mph on the road because of stability and braking considerations. I take the backroads to my home and back to work on the boat, but it stays in the marina slip 350 days a year. The boat weighs 6400 dry, 7500 loaded, and the aluminum trailer 1500 for a total of ~9000 lbs.

It may help that I have oversize tires (31 x 10.5) too, mostly for traction.

Joe.

jdower · Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject:

I tow my CD-22 with a 2005 Toyota 4 Runner, and I have the V8 which is rated at 7,000#. I like the 5 speed automatic trans that is in the V8 version, and when towing I simply put it in 4th which locks out the overdrive.

You can certainly tell there is a trailer back there, but I have never felt unsafe. I normally get 17 mpg, but that drops to 10 mpg when towing. I would be interested in others experience with the Toyota V8.

CTYankee · Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject:

Hi jdower,

The new 4Runner (post 2003) V6 or V8 weighs 1000lbs more than my 99' and I'm wondering if that makes a difference in the herky jerky motion I get towing the 4200lb C-dory and trailer. I've weighed my tounge and it's right at 10%. I have a two wheel trailer and I know that makes some difference, but I've towed my boat with my son in law's Dodge Ram and feel a huge difference in the motion. I'm wondering if the newer 4Runner is better because of the weight. Do you get a lot of up down jerky motion?

Dun

jdower · Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject:

Dun - no up/down or sway motion at all. I do have a tandem axel trailer which helps, but I also have a single axel sailboat that weights around 3700#, and it is no problem. So maybe the larger chassis make a difference.

My main concern is the load on the engine and transmission, but so far the only effect I notice is the really bad mileage. I was looking for 12 - 13 when towing, but I never can get above 10 mpg.

thataway · Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject:

I got 12 miles a gallon when towing the CD 22 on a dual axel trailer behind the Honda Pilot. Overdrive was turned off. You might want to put a temperature sensor in line with the transmission cooler. If the truck has the towing package, the transmission should be up to the task. If it is not so equipt, adding an auxillary cooler is easy.