Best Lifesling Tackle Attachment Point on CD-22?

timflan · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject:

I once watched as a fellow fell in between a 28' Bayliner and the dock. The wind had really picked up that day, and I still remember his cry as the boat surged against the dock, with his torso acting as fender. Ouch. He was pulled out of the water right away, but man, that was scary.

Anyway, I appreciate all the feedback. We'll conduct some tests later this season, and I'm sure we'll all learn a lot.

As for Warren's question:

thataway · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject:

Falling overboard while docking is relitatively common. I must confess I did it at least twice when a kid--once with the "ship's clock"--a Waltam Railroad watch in my hand. My dad used to tell of seeing the clock emerging from the water since I tried to keep it dry as I went over--the clock was saved by putting it in fresh water, then gasoline, and off to the jewlers. I was a skinny kid and my dad was strong, so he pulled me out of the water both at the dock and once at sea when I fell overboard (we didn't have any lifelines our our sailboat and I had gone foreward to tighten some halyards.)

I always warned folks to stay on the boat--not to jump off to the dock. Despite that warning, one of our friends jumped from our Cal 46 to a fishing boat In Alaska--and slipped right into the harbor. Fortunately she was thin, athletic and her husband pulled her right out--freeboard over 3 1/2 feet--but she went down first, to prevent being caught between the Cal 46 and the fishing boat, and I didn't kick the boat into reverse to pull the stern in so there was room for her. The C Dories are relitatively light in comparison to some larger sailboats--and the risk of injury are substantial in larger boats.

Getting people back aboard is a serous business. But we have to remember that some of us, as we age do not have as much upper body strength as we once had.

Grumpy · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject:

Bob,
Your last post reminds me of the saying:- "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I always was."

Glad to see you back on form...

Merv

SeaSpray · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:43 am Post subject:

I have also fallen in while trying to jump to the dock. The dock can be one of the most dangerous places for boaters.

I tell people not to jump for the dock. If you cannot step onto the dock don't go!

Steve

timflan · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

I've received some questions from C-Brats about progress with my parbuckle/ladder rescue net. I finally wrote it up here:

http://www.navagear.com/2007/12/overboard-rescue-parbuckleladder-4/

thataway · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject:

Nice write up of your experiences, and emphasises that it is very difficult to get aboard in the best of circumstances. It would seem that the parabuckle would have to be lifted from both the foreward and aft ends--a block and tackle would seem most effecient. I can see using the Garhauer Davit for the aft end, and putting a strong point on the cabin lip for the foreward point. However, I doubt if your daughter could pull you up--considering the throwing of the life sling (which is designed to be towed to the victum). There are thowable inflatable life saving devices,which could be thrown to a greater distance... But still the problem is with the person who is impaired. Impairment comes very rapidly with cold water and early hypothermia. Compounding is the weight of clothes and the resistance of boots or shoes.

Doryman · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject:

timflan · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject:

S'worth a try. Before you go to any great trouble rigging up the "deploy from overboard" ripcord arrangment, I strongly suggest you put on a wetsuit, climb in the water, have someone throw the Lifesling to you, rigged as you imagine it would be, and get yourself in the boat. If you can do it, then move forward.

If nothing else, I've satisfied myself that you have to really practice this stuff. Don't just buy the gear, install it, and expect it to work in a crisis. Climb right into the water and USE IT when it's not an emergency. I don't particularly like climbing into Puget Sound, wetsuit or not, so I waited until I was in Lake Washington to try it out.

I think it's probably a good idea to practice this stuff once a year, at least. I've got to get my wife and kids out of the boat for some practice, too. Gotta be summer, gotta be warm, gotta be fun.

thataway · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:56 am Post subject:

We "proofed" our hoisting arrangements on all of our larger boats--by having my wife hoist me aboard (easier because we started from S. Calif. or Florida, where the water was warmer)--also remember that a wet suit gives you some flotation, plus it decreases the hypothermic effect. So if you fall overboard, it will be more difficult than what you simulate.

I have pulled myself up to the top of 60 foot masts with 4:1 block and tackle more times than I would care to remember (and that is why we "electrified" the process--since I went up every time before we put to sea). A strong man can do this easily--but some one who is not in shape will have more difficulty. The problem still remains, to get the lifting point high enough with the life sling. We had to put the lifting point up 10 to 12 feet off the water to have a reliable way to get the entire body over the railing--not a problem with a boat which has a Radar arch on the stern, where the top is 9 feet off the deck, or a boat with an electric crane davit 12 feet off the water for the dinghy--but these heights are not available on the C Dory. (except with the davit on the side of the cabin--as we discussed in a prior thread).

Grumpy · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:21 am Post subject:

Warren,

"Kingfisher" photo album, page #3, sub album "PIW recovery..."

Merv

Sea Wolf · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:41 am Post subject:

Doryman · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the pix and ideas. Merv, have you tested this in a self-rescue mode?

Just thinking out loud here -- how about an inflatable platform that you put under your feet or your butt while in the water and yank a lanyard to inflate?

Warren

Grumpy · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject:

Warren,

I have not tested it on myself or on anyone else, yet! No real excuse for not doing apart from cold water. But I guess if I could do it on the trailer it would also work at sea. The only issue I see so far is getting sufficient clearance for the POB's butt to be able to swing it inboard. If this proves to be a problem, there is always one higher rung on the radar arch I can try or I could have people sit in the lifesling if they were capable. A Bosuns chair would also work.

However I do like your idea of attaching an inflatable to someone's feet and then yanking on it and I do have a couple of test "dummies" I would dearly like to try it on !!! Twisted Evil

Ideally we would all wear full safety harness.

Bottom line for me is if the POB is in real danger, they should be happy even if I gaff them !!

Merv

arniehuff · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: We've been there!

New Year's Day - '69 or maybe '70 - Just outside Ala Wai Harbor (Honolulu, Hi) - we were hailed by a sailboat (est 25+ ft). 3 adults visible on the boat. As we approached they told us they had found a non-responsive diver floating in the water, and were UNABLE to get him aboard their boat. We eased alongside and got hold of this person. The sailboat folks told us they would radio for an ambulance to meet us if we could take this person in, and pulled away. (Small open boats didn't carry 2-way radios in those days.) We had a 13' Boston Whaler, and with 3 30-something scuba enthusiasts aboard, had no problem getting this long, lanky young man into the boat along with his double 72's and other gear. He was alive and groaned a bit but said nothing, and just curled up in the fetal position in the bottom of the boat.

We got back to the pier ASAP and the ambulance was waiting. I spoke to the EMT's and suggested this was a diving incident and to consider Sub Base, Pearl Harbor becasue a decompression chamber was available there. The EMTs took the guy and we said we would hold his gear for him. He seemed OK when he came to pick it up a week or so later.

After the inflatable (our 1st boat) and the Whaler, our boats had good boarding ladders and we were pretty good at helping diving buddies aboard if they needed help.

Fast forward to present - the northern Pacific is cold, the Loose Nut presents fair amount of freeboard when viewed from waterline on the wet side - We do have some stuff - like a rope ladder that has never been wet and some odds and ends of line - but when Whiskeytown Lake warms up a bit next spring we have promised ourselves to hit the water and learn what we really can and can't do in a MOB situation before we head for the big blue pond for the summer.

Thanks to the folks already working on this, we are watching your posts closely. Love these C-Brats for sharing!

Marcia

ryder · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject:

This is interesting stuff. I tend to boat alone alot so I focus on first of all how to stay in the boat and second how to get back aboard. There was an interesting article in Pacific yachting about how to make a plan. In the North West it has to be a 10 min plan. That is all you can count on your muscles working. After 10 mins you will no longer have the strength or muscle control to help yourself. Quite honestly there are so many variables it is impossible to forsee them all. Using a sling might work at the dock but what about 3 or 4 foot seas? Is someone at the helm or is the rescuer the captain in which case the boat is flopping around out of control while a someone is trying to hoist a 200lb guy aboard. Scary stuff.
Ryder