Annoying Anchor Salesmen...

[timflan]

Anybody remember the "Choice of Anchor" topic? The one where we had a salesman drop by, and the powers-that-be promptly gave him the bum's rush?

Well, I just posted a little follow-up over on Navagear, in which I discuss the C-Brats incident, as well as some of the other annoying online marketing tactics this outfit uses.

I've tried to be fair, and I'm interested in feedback from folks here. Thanks!

[journey on]

OK, you've got me going.

I've sailed to Mexico and the South Pacific. I've sailed (actually, motored in a sailboat,) to Alaska and completely around the United States. I've used the best anchors I can buy: Danforth, Fortress and CQR. I also used the best rode and fittings I could get, and they weren't made in China either Why? Because my life depended on them. Whenever you anchor, there's a lee shore, and if you're anchor doesn't hold, you'll be there. Everything didn't go perfectly, but it worked well enough to keep me out of trouble. The CQR, for instance doesn't like soft sand or mud, whereas the Danforth does.

OK, now back to the topic. Everyone gets to buy their own anchor, and I hope that they have a good reason to do so. Anchors and ground tackle are CHEAP, even the best. Also, there are a gadzillion different anchors on the market, all with great claims. I don't know much about anchor design, so I have to go by what other people use. The CQR is a standard, every cruising sailor has one. The Danforth held the landing craft on D-Day, and it's common in So Cal. The Fortress also comes with a good reputation. I don't know how West Marine designed theirs, and I don't want to find out.

I just don't understand people who go for the cheapest anchor, when they're talking about a few buck vs. their boat. A good friend is looking for a Chinese stainless anchor because they're polished and cheap. An anchor is supposed to hold your boat when you need it. You need to get something good, not newfangled or cheap.

Boris

[Larry H]

Tim,

The C-Brats is like a pub where friends sit around and talk boats, and tell a few good jokes. If a new guy walks in and starts selling insurance or vacuums right off the bat, he gets tossed. On the other hand, if he joins the discussions and becomes a friend, we might eventually ask him what he does and even buy some of his insurance.

Due to the success of this group, merchants want to use us to promote their wares.

Recently the anchor guy and the active captain guy joined and then started promoting their products. While its ok for a C-Brat to tell other Brats about products or services they have found or used, its not ok for manufacturers to join just to promote their stuff.

Those threads were deleted or locked by the administration to preserve our C-Brats 'way of life'.

[New Hampshire Guy]

Glad you brought it up. I never understood the blazing attack on ActiveCaptain. A site that takes no money and is out to benefit boaters and boating. It was recommended by a C-Brat and C-Dory owner, a PHD who teaches at Maine Maritime of all places, who was trying to point out a resource that benefitted him. First HE got attacked, because he didn't have enough posts, among other things. To try to smooth the waters, the good Dr invites the ACTIVE guy to correct the mis-understanding, and then the fireworks REALLY began...

I think that deleting the post was good, not that ACTIVECAPTAIN ( or whatever the spelling) deserved it, but the rabid response was getting disturbing and way out of hand.

If limiting manufacturers makes the site better, I'm all for it. If deleting a thread ends it from dominating the posts with wild accusations, I'm all for that too. But I think in that case a nice resource was squandered, and the ability for the C-BRATS to contribute was lost.
Personally I think the pendulum always swings, so this site is going to go from relaxed and joking to WAY TOO SERIOUS. That is natural. Just be careful what you wish for, because the "Active" guy took time to write a pleasant intro and got outright mugged, and HE won't be bothering the BRATS ever again. Preserving the website? Not that time, In My Humble Opinion.
I completely missed the Anchor guy clash, so no comment on what I don't know.
As always, no personal attacks here.
and Go BRATS!
John

[flagold]

There will be times when feathers are ruffled for this or that reason, and posts or people are deleted for the right or wrong reasons and it simply goes with the territory of the Internet.

Thankfully, I'm universally loved by all . . .

[thataway]

Journey on is spot on--as usual. The West Marine Performance series anchors are based on the Danforth pattern for the origional Hi Test series.
The patent ran out and the design became public domain.

One of the features of the CQR is that it is drop forged and very high quality--and rarely fails. The Danforths also have been of high quality, but at some point actually came out with a couple of anchors a few years back which were not ideal, because of some change in materials. There have been a number of copies of the CQR which have not been as good both in holding and in reliablity of material. I am concerned with Chinese SS anchors, since I have had Chinese SS fittings fail due to flaws in castings. I have the same concerns about welds, metals and galvanizing on Chinese manufactured anchors.

I haven't used the Bruce--but would be concerned with knock offs because of cast anchors under high load failing.

I don't know any more about Ronca's than what I have read, but I am always suspicious of "Tests" by an anchor maker. Most independant testers realize that it is very difficult to precise replicate the bottom and set of each anchor. There have been other anchor promotors who have been banned from other web sites because of self promotion, so this is not unique to C Brats.

I stick with Delta, Fortress, Danforth, and an old Northill pattern, because they work.

[Alasgun]

On this cheep anchor thing: for those unfamiliar with various metallurgy terms. When you see them advertise those Stainless china models, be ware. Most are said to be made of high test, heat treated 316 Stainless. This is hooey, 316 is 316 and is neither high test nor heat treatable. In it's cast form (which all these anchors are) the tensile / yield properties are weaker than any forged product.
The Rocna seems like a great anchor if you believe everything on that web site. My question is this, can you have an anchor that set's to well? This baby looks like it could be difficult to break out at times!.
The Bruce suits our needs fine.
Mike

[B~C]

Tinflan, I thought your piece was spot on. The gorilla marketing tactics some folks use are just....well.....lets just say no good. I, like you, wouldn't buy something marketed in such a manner even if it was a great deal. Those tactics are kind of what got my jaw set about a brand X boat that is no longer in production, it was a nice boat but the totally cheesy way it was introduced here was very lame.
As New H. Guy points out, folks need to be cautious and factor in some common sense before they start giving a poster the Tony Lama treatment.

do you think I could make a buck as a door-to-door anchor salesman?

[CTYankee]

Brats,

I agree with John's (NH Guy) post about Active Captain. This site has genuine value and is not commercial. I am chartering a Trawler in Florida and used Active Captain to locate possible anchorages. I found it very useful and have posted some of my favorite places as well. The Brats were too quick to judge on this one!

Dun

[thataway]

Some times I wonder how these threads bend the way they do. I thought that the Active Captain site question had been nicely resolved. It is free and available with no commercial content or intent.

[Alain P.]

SPAM DELETED

[Alasgun]

I'm just a little curious what size C-dory would need a Rocna AND a 33 lb bruce to hold her?
Mike

[Chester]

Alain Poiraud, I'll tell you the same thing I told Craig Smith. This forum is for C-Dory owners and fans. Tell me, are you using a C-Dory for your South American Cruise? Tell the truth!
While you don't currently manufacture anchors the way Craig does, you are involved in an international pissing match with him. This is not your forum. If we want to become involved in your anchor drama we'll look you up on the SSCA forum.
Good by.

[timflan]

Oh, for the love of...!

He's commented on my original anchor post at Navagear, now:
http://www.navagear.com/2007/04/funny-looking-anchors

Anyway, back on topic. Thanks for all the feedback. I, too, find it curious how these threads find their own direction.

It's pretty funny that an annoying anchor salesman joined in a discussion entitled "Annoying Anchor Salesmen"! I was out of town over the weekend (on my boat, actually, up to Port Townsend with the whole family...another story), so I missed A.P.'s contribution. What did he say? Anybody got a copy?

[Chester]

It was a cut and paste of his April 4th post in the Appropiate Anchor Size thread in the Underway forum of the SSCA Discussion Board.