Choice of anchor

[Sea Wolf]

Thataway-

Nice "voice of experience" observations, Bob! Hard for me to imagine diving in those kinds of winds, but if it weren't for the fleeting Sweet Bird of Youth, well, maybe........Ha!

No doubt the sentinel or kellet can be overpowered, as your experience shows.

I wonder if it doesn't have some application, though, in limited wind conditions, as especially in tight anchorages where boats wandering around in the wind need as much help as possible to be restricted in their swing.

About a year or two ago we discussed how to limit the swinging at anchor problem, thinking that the C-Dory hulls had quite a bit of forward-centered windage that leads them toward excessive "searching".

There were a number of possibilities suggested to remedy the problem, and I remember one suggested possible solution was some kind of intermediate rode weight like the sentinel.

The thought was that the sentinel would make the swing circle tighter, slow the response time down to the wind, and make the overall boat motion in the waves somewhat moderated.

Would it be useful for this purpose and under these limited circumstances?

Joe.

[Alasgun]

One of the main reasons I bought our boat is to get away from a crowd, hopefully my wild swinging will deter would be cove comrades!
Mike on Huda Thunkit

[thataway]

Yes, Boats of different types swing differently--and theoretically kellets would slow the swing--but then you have added another factor to the "sailing" in a cove. Generally Kellets are sent down the rode on a saddle or large block, there is a line attatched to the kellet. Some folks will shackle the kellet to the chain. This adds the problem of having to un shackle the kellet as you bring the anchor up. (See below about moving in storm conditions). Do I carry the Kellet in the TC or C Dory?--no. But in the TC I have two Fortress, one Delta, one Northill, two sand screws and another Northill and a large Fortress, I could carry--and I would choose these options to a Kellet--at this point in life..

Frankly, it it is that crowded, we go somewhere else. Or in S. Calif, often all boats anchor fore and aft, so that swinging is not a problem--and the boat is held fore and aft into any swells comming into an anchorage. The beauty of the C Dory group is the shoal draft and ability to get "away" from the crowd.

As for diving on the rode. The circumstance was in the lee of Puenta St. Elena, Northern Costa Rica. The wind was a Papagayo. We had anchored in the lee of a cliff in the afternoon, at about 10 PM the wind shifted and made this a lee shore. We moved across the bay to be in the shelter of some Islands--and at 3 AM the wind shifted back--and we went back to the lee of the cliff. (The reason to stand an anchor watch) The next morning the wind was steady and we were calling out the wind speed off the aeronometer for entertainment. The water was warm and clear, the seas were relitatively calm--and we had two anchors well set. I slipped in the water over the stern and swam along the side of the boat to the anchor rode. I followed the rode all of the way to the anchors. This was free diving in about 10 feet of water. I had been free diving for 45 years at that time of life (as well as having been a certified diver for 30 years) and was a young 59 years old then. There was no risk in that dive. There were three others on the boat all capable of running the boat if there had been any problem. Just intellectual curosity and to prove my point that there is no cantry at a certain wind speed.

[Sea Wolf]

[Chester]

Dear Craig, this forum is for C-Dory owners and fans. Should you attempt to spam us the way you do the SSCA Discussion Board or Wikipedia we will show you the door.
Yes, you do build a good anchor, but I find your sales tactics offensive.

[Chester]

By the way folks, don't believe the chart in Craig Smiths first post. It is his adjusted version designed to make his Rocna anchor look good. That chart was not published by West Marine, Yachting Magazine, or Sail. It's just set up to look that way.
Craig, we're not bumpkins you can baffle with self serving BS. If you try to drag this forum down to sell your product the way you have elsewhere, we'll run you off.

[Larry H]

Craig Smith,

Are you on this forum for any reason other than to sell your anchors?

We are not about commercial advertising disguised as a members post.

ON EDIT: Craig is gone, thanks administrators!

I hope his anchors are better than he is!

[Not For Hire]

Some other anchoring considerations:
If you have seven to one scope you should have a circle of clearance equal to eight times the water depth and the center of the circle is the anchor. I think a scope of five to one with a mixed chain and nylon rode is enough.
In a big blow if the anchoring system fails it will fail at the weakest point. On the C-Dorys that may well be the bow roller. I don't think it could take the intermittent shocks sustained over time. Yet how many of us have proper fair leads (skene chocks) installed, and how many of us take the time to move the rode out of the roller, through the fairlead and to the fore cleat? Better yet would be a proper bridle system but how many C-Dories have two suitable cleats installed on the bow as sturdy as the stem cleat? If the bow roller is broken or bent or removed the rode can chafe all too soon.
A proper storm anchor should be three times the weight of your regular anchor. So for the 22 that would be 30 to 50 lbs. (approximate for any spade type anchor, danforth, bruce, delta, cqr, etc., less for the lightweight models such as Fortress) Nice to have but hell to store aboard. If I was anchoring and leaving the boat for any length of time I would want one.
Chapman is ambivalent about sentinels but does suggest a sentinel/kettle affixed to the chain at the point of attachment to the main rode could be a good thing.
Daily use includes trailering, launching, anchoring, retrieving. No single anchor design is best. Some hold the best in sand and mud - danforth, some skate the most and foul the most on weeds, etc - danforth. Some set and reset easiest, bruce, delta, cqr types, some launch easier, some hold better in weeds and rock and coral (hook types, kedges) etc.
Has anyone used a floating sentinel. That is -- a sturdy buoy between boat and anchor. The buoy supposedly receives much of the up and down shock and the force exerted on the boat is more horizontal.
A combination nylon and chain rode is best in a storm to have elastic anchoring.
My compromise is to have 20 feet of chain (when I see the chain I know I can get underway) and a 16 lb bruce. This suits most Great Lakes conditions. A delta or cqr or similar would have been dandy too, but I wanted one of those types for day in day out use. Besides I don't anchor out near enough but am looking forward to the day.

Regards,

Mark

[thataway]

Althugh most of us use the bow anchor roller, I agree that this is not the best way to attatch a rode. You are far better off using a snubber line, to a cleat directly on the side of the boat. This way there is no chafe on the main rode--since few if any C Dories have all chain, the snubber and chain hook don't necessarilly apply. However we use snubbers tied on the nylon 3 strand rode with a rolling hitch. This allows adjusting the point of chafe, changing chafing gear etc easily in a real blow. On our larger boats, we always used a snubber, which never took the load on the bow roller.

As for the weight of a storm anchor--yes, we generally like a much heavier storm anchor for the "ultimate storm" but the fluke area is also an extremely important consideration--maybe even more so than weight. In larger boats I used to say that the minimum size plow should be 35 lbs. That is way too heavy for a C Dory.--it is also very difficult to store.

The solution can be a light weight anchor which breaks down--such as the Fortress FX 37. This anchor weighs 21 lbs, breaks down for easy storage and will hold up to 3000 lbs. It is comperable to a 35 to 50 lb steel anchor in holding power (comperable bottoms, ie sand) This is what we carry on the Tom Cat 255 as a "storm anchor" On our larger boats we had anchors up to 150 lbs (but they broke down into 50 lb sections)--and 1/2" chain (weight 2.5 lbs a foot, or 50 feet weight was 125 lbs additional weight, plus 1" diameter rope--in other words, you don't only have to increase the anchor size, but also the rode and all gear associated with it).

We like the 7 : 1 scope--this has been well established, based on the Danforth type of anchors, to give the best shot at both penetration of the bottom and maintaining a downward migration of the anchor shank during a load. The anchor shank needs to remain parallel to the bottom, the fluke angle is 32 degrees in Danforth and Fortress anchors, and the rode angle with the shank needs to be 8 degrees or less. Remember that the "depth" includes the distance of the bow off the water, plus the depth of the water. There are some instances where we will set with a 7: 1 scope, power back and check for dragging, and shorten up scope if there are other boats nearby. However generally we stay with the 7:1 scope which is recommended for combination rope and chain rode--10:1 recommended for the all rope rode and 5:1 may be fine with all chain, until it begins to really blow.

As for the ball as a shock absorber; this is more likely used in coral infested waters, where there is a chance of the rode being entangled under a coral head and severed. Also a large bouy can hold the "weight" of the chain and keep this from depressing the bow--allowing it to rise more rapidly. All in all, one needs a longer rode to do this, because the float tends to effectively bring the rode to the surface before the bow of the boat. We have used this effectively in open water where there were coral head (for example we anchored on the Salvage Islands to dive on wrecks--pretty much out in the open and used this technique). It is not something I would use every day, especially with a C Dory. But it is a "Trick" which might help in some cases, to releive the strain on the boat.

[Doryman]

[thataway]

Our Tom Cat only has one bow cleat, and it is athwartships and just aft of the windlass, so that if the line is attatached to it, and leads foreward it will hit the windlass casing on either side. (Not a good design) In our case, I made a line, with an eye spice, thimble and shackle which I place thru the bow eye on one end, and run a rolling hitch around the anchor rode with the other end. the rolling hitch will hold---and it tightens as the load increases. see:
http://www.animatedknots.com/rollinghitchboating/index.php
I allow slack between the end cleated to the cleat and the place where the rolling hitch on the snubber line attatches to the main rode.

I probably will eventually add bow cleats to each side of the bow. or a cleat on each side of the roller... The boats don't come from the factory with any other bow cleats. There are spring line cleats on the side deck at about the foreward end of the wheel house--I think that making a bridle from these would be awkard and subject to chafe. (one might make a case for these to be bow cleats, but with the position as far aft and right on the edge of the gunnel, the line to the dock would be very short and subject to jerking loads.)

Some C Dories have a cleat on each side of the bow, some have fairleads with a single cleat in the center. In this case, one can place the snubbers thru the fair leads and then cleat to the center cleate (if there is no windlass in the way) Even smooth fairleads can cause chafe, so I would prefer to go directly to a cleat on the edge of the gunnel. If you pass a rope under load thru a fair lead, it is a good idea to have chafing gear.

Some folks anchor their boat so that all of the strain is on one side of the bow. I prefer not to do that, and to use two snubbers (at least one lighter than the anchor rode.) with one on each side. Thus the pull of the anchor rode is straight foreward off the bow. However, there is something to be said for anchoring with the bow slightly off of the eye of the wind--there tends to be less sailing--or more properly put--the sailing tends to be more in one direction. I have yet to own a boat which does not sail to some extent at anchor. No, I don't normally anchor by the stern as the only anchor.

[teflonmom]

One other small point I would like to make about our C-Dorys.
Many times because of our shallow draft we can get into places with very good protection from heavy wind other cruising boats could not get into these holes. We have anchored on the lower eastern shore of the CBay hiding up small channels. The tall grass growth deflected the wind over our head, of course you must find a spot with room to anchor.

Don't forget to factor in the tidal range when you figure your scope. With a big range you could end up with less scope than you planned.

Fred, Pat, and Mr Grey(the Cat)

[dogon dory]

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

[Not For Hire]

The line from bow eye to rode with a rolling hitch is great idea. Solves a number of problems! Could still run a second line to reduce hunting. Could add fairleads on bow but a little farther back than I had planned. Already have a small second cleat on bow to hold anchor in roller, could use to stow the line to the bow eye.
New project - cool, thanks.
I have seen this painter setup commonly on Bayliners and Dodges, always thought it was because they were so frequently towed.
<g>

Regards,
Mark

[SeaSpray]

Okay, what is a skene chock?

It seems tha the Rocna has been hyped. But is it a good anchor or no better than the claw or delta for general use? Anyone use one or have opinions?

Thanks,
Steve