Wallace vs. Stock

[thataway]

I have to give warning about both using open flame propane to heat an enclosed cabin and using cartridge type of propane/butane stoves in an enclosed cabin. Most carbon monoxide detectors do not give adequate protection from cummulative carbon monoxide poisoning.

Although rare, there have been istances of propane cartridges leaking--both at the seals when sitting and when put into the stove. A fire or explosion in the cabin of a C Dory could ruin the rest of your life. I will not own a boat with a cartridge propane/butane stove in the cabin. I have owned a number of boats with built in propane stoves--along with good CO detectors, (never used a propane stove for heating) and a propane sniffer in the bilge. I have used propane barbeques and keep the cartridges outside of the cabin.

The C Dory web site still lists the Oringo stove--but the switch to the cartridge may be economic--it costs only a fraction of the Oringo. My personal opinion is that this is a step backward and I am really disturbed to see that happen.[/i]

[Sea Wolf]

Marty-

To answer your question about the propane system costs....

Yes the $1000 is for components only. Installation could be another five or more hours at the going rate, say $85 an hour around here.

If I wasn't going to put in the system myself, I'd get a very FIRM estimate from an installer before I bought any parts. Buying the components through the dealer who installs them might result in a lower labor bill, but then....?

Actually, an RV dealer could install the stove and heater as long as they used marine components where required, such as the detectors and shut off solenoids.

There's usually a very good article on propane systems in boats in the current year's West Marine Catalogue.

Joe.

[squidslayer]

Well I didn't have anything on the Butane...but if you put a teapot...sucured by the stove pot holder safety bracket it would probably be best for safety..and hot tea!! And heat!! It REALLY kicks out the BTU's!!!
No ..it was not designed as a heater...but it sure made things toasty!!!for 0$$$

$2300.00 for the wallas is a waste....and WAY over priced.....just think of what you could by with $2300!!! roof your house...a kicker...electronics.. when you got a good butane stove for free!!
you can get a propane heater for $100
And 4 Butane Canisters for $2.89!!!!! Safe reliable heat...can't beat it for free!!

Go to my photo's "Shirley Mae" in the electonics folder to see a pix of the Butane

Dick

[C-Sick]

This probably says more about me than my Walles but it is my favorite feature on the boat. Living in the Northwest it is a rare outting that I don't have it on. I will even fire it up if I am just working on the boat.

I am migrating to a Ranger Tug and I have one order for it.

Safety is huge when it comes to fire. The Walles is as safe as heat can get.

The only problem I have ever had is a bad thermo coupler and that was an easy and quick fix with great support from Scan.

[squidslayer]

Seems
unreasionable ... like some people are posting... that C-Dory would install a Butane stove ...inside their boats....for cooking...in an inclosed cabin...and it would be unsafe!!!!!ANYTHING burning inside is unsafe if you don't use a little COMMON SENSE!..like cracking a window......
Don't get me wrong Wallas stoves are great...but not nessessary...
Unless you do ice fishing...or are in ALaska...you do not need a $2300 heater!!! Kerosene took down the World Trade Center! and can be just as dangerous as Butane...the Butane Canisters are small.. unlike propane... so even if they leaked are not as great of a hazard like burning up your boat up as with Wallas Kerosene...also Kerosene Stinks!!

Dick

[Sea Wolf]

Is this the new propane canister stove being installed on the CD-22?



From Colobear's C-Cakes Album

Joe.

[sailor-d]

Just for the record I paid just over $1500(US) for a Wallas model 85DU from Scan Marine. This is the model with the blower lid. The total with exhaust tube, through-hull, fuel tank and pot holders was just over $1700. It is a snap to install and has given me trouble free operation.

Cheers - Dave

[mikeporterinmd]

We use propane for the grill. We always keep the propane outside. I would guess
about 1 in 2 propane cylinders (the replacable kind) end up empty due to a
leak after an initial use. I wouldn't want these inside a cabin.

We used to have a butane stove, too. It did work well, and those cans did
not leak. However, they cost a good deal more than the quoted price in this
thread. I wouldn't think they would work well for heating except to take the
chill off in the morning. Not really safe to sleep with. Are the cheaper
ones more prone to leaking?

Anyhow, I would only use a butane stove for actual cooking. That way,
my attention would stay focused on it, and I would remember to remove the
butane and store it out of the cabin when finished.

You can get a single burner portable butane stove for about $60 - maybe less.

If you have shore power, an electric heater is a viable option.

I've been using the Wallace a lot right in the driveway while I'm working on the boat.
Works well.

$2300 is a lot of money. If you are comfortable cutting a hole in the boat for the
exhaust, and cutting the counter top for the stove and the front for the vent, you
could save a few hundred. Also, you need to run the wires, so a bit of electrical
work is needed.

This would be a hard decision if I were buying a new boat. It's a great thing
to get on a used boat. A Wallace would be a major factor in deciding between
nearly equal used boats.

Mike

[Sea Wolf]

Mike-

Or, if you're a natural born bargan hunter like me, you can buy both stoves and all the detectors and other parts on ebay and install all of them for under $500.

I guess I'll just have to change my motto / signature:



PROUD TO BE-

**CHEAP!!!**

Ha! Joe.

[Cutty Sark]

The price of a wallas is really a drop in the bucket when you're talking about a boat like a CDory anyway. And I find it is such a fantastic feature. My fishing buddies always seem to make a comment when we are winter blackmouth fishing about how nice it is to have heat. And my wife, probably would stay home alot without it. I'd bet 80% or more of the Brats on here have a wallas, and there is good reason. Safety is a major issue, fire in a boat is a bad thing, no open flame and the fact it vents outside are two major plus's on a small boat. I can leave it running and not worry about my kids burning themselves on it or knocking it over. And the fact that fuel is easy to come by, chances are not matter where you are you can find some deisel around. I also wouldn't even consider a Cdory without one. But it's cold here in the Northwest.

Sark

[mikeporterinmd]

[C-WEED]

When boat shopping, I passed on not even looking at a few nice used boats because they didn't have the wallas. My mistake. Well, now that I have used one?

For $2300 I would take what ever stock stove was available. The new owner pays for it! (prefer the origo alcohol) buy a Honda 2000 geny (power the whole boat), a ceramic heater, portable with a real thermostat! (heat at your feet or v-birth or in the cockpit under the camperback would be great, wonderful, fantastic), a two burner hot plate (cook away) Oh, and for those hot, humid days get a nice air-conditioner if you want. And still have some change left over to to burn.

I don't own a honda yet but: There is no question as of what type of fuel to burn. It will probably never leave you stranded. It's fuel consumption is probably on par with the wallas while it runs heater, circulating fan if needed and intertainment system. If it does need worked on there is more than one place in the USA that can repair it without boxing it up and shipping.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=135349&posts=2

Here is a link on a honda generator deal.

[flapbreaker]

Initially I was choked up at the "high" cost of the wallas however, I must agree with some other brats that it's probably the best feature of the boat. It's the only heater that I would use while sleeping. Another thing that has not been mentioned is the heat from the stove is a dry heat. I don't find that the cabin gets stuffy warm like open flame heat source can sometimes cause. Love my wallas.

P.S. I burn Klean heat instead of deisel with no problems.

[BobArrington]

Yes Joe, the picture is the new stock stove, but it is not propane it is butane. The advantage of butane is that it produces much higher BTU then propane, is cheaper to buy and comes in smaller containers.

Everyone is missing an important rule which is; anytime you ask one divice to do multiple things it usually dosen't do either as well as a dedicated design will. If you're going to combine devices for one purpose - first understand your primary need and choose that which works best for your need and accept the trade off on the other side. If you don't like the trade off then choose a heater that heats the best and a stove that cooks the best.

If we all don't know that safety has to be remembered with all of these devices then let "Darwins Law" prevail.

May we all boat warm, safe and well fed.

[Sea Wolf]

Bob-

We went through the butane/propane discussion once before, and my chemistry/physics teacher background has to respectfully disagree with you about the comparative btu output.

Here's an excerpt from an Airstream RV discussion forum which I'll LINK here.


"If your Gas Connection to the regulator fits a standard LPG Liquefied Petroleum Gas) bottle then don't worry about it.

Actually, the BTU values per pound are very close. Propane delivers about 21,600 BTUs per pound, and Butane will put out about 21,300 BTUs. Not enough of a difference to argue in real life.

In the case of standard commercial cylinder (LPG) gas, what you often get is a "mixture" of Propane and Butane varied by area and season (and now, unfortunately, by availability). At atmospheric pressure Butane has a freezing point of 0ºc while Propane has a freezing point of -42ºc. When liquified gas approaches its freezing point, it ceases to vaporize effectively and the gas available to the Airstream is dramatically reduced.

If you have a heavy draw on the regulator (total gas demand maximized) in cold temperatures (winter) as the vapor is drawn off, it causes the remaining liquid in the tank to become colder, and, as the temperature falls, butane becomes less and less effective. Butane remains a liquid, which means it will not give off any gas vapor at 31 degrees F at atmospheric pressure, while Propane continues to perform at a higher level at the same temperature - it liquifies totally (stops gassifying) at -48 degrees F at atmospheric pressure.

Now, to quote one of my professors from the Missouri School of Mines and Metalurgy, "It is intuitively obvious that as evaporation cooling affects the temperature of the cylinder, Propane will maintain a more stable flow than Butane, all other factors being constant".

What the above means is that, under most cases, economics aside, Propane is a better fuel than Butane.

Holy Crap!!! been carrying around the books with those numbers in them since the dark ages in college (pre-computer) - and this is one of the first times I have been able to use those bits of information."
__________________
Dennis

"Suck it up, spend the bucks, do it right the first time."

*************************************************************************

Joe.