Daydream w/ electrical problem at sea

Alyssa Jean · Last edited by Alyssa Jean on Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:15 am; edited 2 times in total

Just got a cell phone call from Pat on the Daydream. They are spending the night at Sucia Is. San Juans. He has no electical power to the helm panel. We have discussed the 30 amp breaker in the starboard battery compartment and I think he has it reset properly. Both batteries are charged. The Wallas is working fine, which is wired directly to the battery. Is there some other breaker between the 30 amp and the helm panel??

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject:

PS Already tried to call Les at EQ Marine. He is out until Tue.

B~C · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:01 pm Post subject:

Can't answer you 50 amp breaker question...but be sure to double check all the battery connections both + & -.
best of luck

B~C · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject:

dug out the factory wiring diagram, it shows a red 10 gauge wire with a 30 amp fuse (that's probablly your circuit breaker) feeding the fuse panel by the helm, it shows no other circuit protecton device, the Wallas and the bilge pump have their own fused wire from the battery. DON"T over look the ground connections at the batttery and at the buss bar by the helm

Mr. Fisherman · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:03 am Post subject:

Ken said what I would have...
How did this turn out?

Hope they are ok...

Cheers

And any connections to the battery switch:

stevej · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:44 am Post subject:

Sounds familiar, lost power to the main panel on Shearwater only to find 3 in line fuse holders under the starboard gunnel midway between the cabin and transom. Not on the wiring diagram but looked to be factory installed. Just to add to the confusion they used a large style auto type plug in fuse as opposed to the glass ones on the other circuits. I carry a VOM now as part of the standard tool supply.

stevej

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject:

I just talked on the phone with Pat. They are good to go and underway. A boat that pulled in right behind them was skippered by a marine mechanic, and he went aboard Daydream and found that corrosion in the main breaker was causing a big voltage drop. A short jumper wire across the breaker poles, and all is temporarily well. It seems the breaker (installed by C-Dory) was put in a poor place, instead of protected from the elements like it should be. There must be a 1-year warranty on electrical stuff, and it made it one year and half a day.

At any rate, the Daydream is right back in business! I hope they enjoy the rest of the trip.

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject:

Great Mike. I had just talked to Pat as that boat was pulling in and he left the phone to help him tie up.

I think I should move my breaker from inside the battery compartment to just under the Wallas/sink cabinet inside the cabin. Would the extra six feet of wire cause any problem? I think fuses and breakers usually are supposed to be as close to the battery as possible, but if only a year causes a problem I think it should be moved to a better location,

What thinks any of you out there?

Da Nag · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject:

Moved this topic out of General Chat...

RE the corrosion - this really strikes me as odd. This is a very common place to put the battery switch - it's supposed to be water tight in those compartments. Seems to me there was an installation problem or an equipment failure; otherwise, this would be a very regular occurrence.

How is the rubber seal on the hatch cover? If you run water across the top of it, does any make it inside? You might want to pick up a tube of Alladin Magic Lube - it's a sealant/lubricant that a plumber introduced me to many years back. It's safe for rubber o-rings, and keeps them from drying out and flattening, and can bring marginal ones back to life. A little goes a long way - I've had the same tube for about 5 years. It's sold in pool supply stores around here, may be in hardware stores as well.

I'm guessing a more likely culprit is a faulty switch installation. Pat - is the switch mounted on the inside edge of the box, with the attachment bolts through the motor well edge? If so, perhaps these bolt holes were not sealed. Assuming C-Dory is using the standard Perko 1-2-All switch, if water were to get in behind the mounting bolts, it would be right on the battery cable connections.

To me, it seems water must have made it in there - I can't imagine damp air could corrode those connections in one year. Regardless, I've always used "the goo" on all my battery connections - last stuff I used on Da Nag 19 was the CRC Marine Corrosion Inhibitor - link is here.

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject:

This was not the battery switch but the 30 amp breaker that serves the helm/house power that is installed in the starboard battery compartment that was corroded. (As I read info from Mike and Pat). The breaker is mounted on the floor of the battery compartment just forward of the battery. This compartment is not sealed from the environment. There is a large opening in the aft section of the compartment at the floor level just above the starboard fuel tank. If the hatch cover is watertight and assuming that it was not left open at some point, or points, to allow salt and other water to enter, then the only way corrosive moisture can enter is through this rather large open space.

Da Nag · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:37 am Post subject:

Duh...guess I should pay closer attention. My eyes kept seeing "breaker", but my brain kept thinking "1-2-All"...

RE the breaker location - I'm still having a tough time accepting that humidity alone could corrode the breaker connections enough in one year to stop power from getting to the main panel. I realize the lazarettes are not 100% water-tight, but they should be sealed pretty well from the elements. The openings in the bottom rear of the lazarettes are well away from any possible normal water source, no?

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:01 am Post subject:

It was my impression that the integrity of the contacts inside the breaker was compromised. Had it been just the connections, a simple cleaning and retightening would have permanently (until next time) fixed the problem, without the need for the bypass jumper. I'm guessing it is a Blue Seas System breaker, which are supposed to be watertight. But, if it is mounted flat on the floor of the lazarette, and water, however little, is allowed to stand on it, the moisture could intrude the riveted breaker housing if the seal is not perfect. There it would be able to do it's dirty deeds to the contacts.

About the only thing I have been able to get done on my rewire project so far is to install the breaker and leads to the cabin. I'm using 2awg boat cable and a 100 amp Blue Seas breaker. (This is so the windlass connections can be made at the helm station, and after the master disconnect which will also be at the helm.) I put the breaker inside a PVC two-gang junction box, sealed with a lid and a flip cover, under the starboard side gunnel. The breaker is hanging vertically, as if mounted against the wall. The wire run from the battery to it is around 8', which is about the distance that David suggests for relocating his breaker. Ideally, the breaker should be set closer to the battery.

David - It might be simplest for you to put your breaker inside a plastic box that is hung forward of the batteries in the lazarette. You could probably get by without redoing any of the wire connections that way. I don't think that just ambient moisture will get into one of those Blue Seas sealed breakers; the intrusion is probably from water allowed to sit in the cavity around the trip button and/or reset lever. Sticking the thing vertical rather than flat, and enclosing it so water cannot get on it should allow you to mount it anywhere you want. Absolutely do not tell B~C I said this, but even a Tupperware sandwich box would do a great job of protecting the breaker if the holes where the wires poke through the box are sealed and the lid is snapped tight (don't forget to "burp" it). If it's out of sight so B~C never sees it, then no problem. Chances are, Pat's breaker problem was a fluke, but flukes on the high seas aren't good to invite. If you put it just inside the cabin bulkhead, I am sure it will never be a problem. But next to the battery is the best. You probably have 8awg wire running to the house, and if it goes to ground between the battery and the breaker, it will could get hot enough to burn fiberglass before it melts in two. But, the chance of it going to ground is slight, and since all the load will be realized on the safe side of the breaker, it should never be a problem. The wire can carry 30 amps all day without getting hot. Installing the breaker at the factory is probably a regulatory requirement, because they didn't used to do it. My 1987 CD22 didn't have one.

Holy cow - I go from not syaing anything on here to writing books again. Good thing I have to go back to 12 hour shifts tomorrow!

Lynn Marie · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:18 am Post subject:

Last years project was installing the windlass so like Mike I ran a 2awg wire forward to the helm with a new disconnect switch. What I did was install a fuse in my battery compartment. It's a heavy duty fuse block with cover that is supported by the wire, completely inclosed and easly replaced with a spare carried in the parts bag. Simple and cheaper.

Tim

Pat Anderson · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:16 am Post subject:

AND NOW, THE REST OF THE STORY!
Not the battery switch, rather the 50 amp breaker. All our volunteer mechanic knew out at Sucia was that there was a large voltage drop around the breaker, hence the solution to just jumper around it. The battery switch is mounted vertically on the side of the lazerette, and looks fine. The breaker is on the bottom of the lazerette, and right in the path of any water that might enter. The breaker itself, however, states that it is waterproof. To be safe, stopped at West Marine on the way home, bought a new breaker, and a few other electrical tool kit items. On closer inspection at Birch Bay, it was not the breaker itself but merely massive rust and corrosion on the post / ring connector / nut on one side. So it was just a bad connection. I cleaned up the post on the breaker, and the continuity tester confirms there is nothing wrong with the breaker itself. I installed the new breaker anyway, in the original location, and not having any brand name goo, I covered both connections thickly with Vasoline after tightening the nuts down. Now I have a spare 50 amp breaker, as soon as I get a couple of new nuts - maybe I will use it for a circuit forward directly from the port battery. The mechanic at Sucia said that location on the bottom of the lazarette was too wet for the breaker, he would move it inside, even though that would put it maybe six feet away from the battery. I will check out some sealant for the lazarette cover, but it looks fine. I am going to just leave the breaker in the lazarette for the time being and see how we fare. Thanks to David and Mike for the phone calls!