Torqeedo Electric Outboards

[breausaw]

Does anyone know if you can charge the batteries on these outboards from a 12 volt source?

[Sea Wolf]

Jay-

The specs say the battery operates from about 25 to 29 volts, with a maximum discharge voltage of 21 volts, so I don't think so.

Plus, you'd need their special charger with it's control circuits to charge the battery right.

See:

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/electric-outboards/power-26-104-intelligent-lithium-battery/technical-data-dimensions

Joe.

[breausaw]

[thataway]

I think that using a Honda generator would be better than the alternator on the outboard--of course depending on the outboard. Some of the older 70 and 90 hp outboards do not have very large alternators, and probably would not keep up with the current draw of the charger (the quick charge of the battery is @100 amps--29 volts)

I have heard that the 80 hp outboard is going to use a higher voltage battery set.

Interesting on the battery web site, that it rates that battery for only 800 100% discharge cycles--I am sure it is a not more if you go to only 60% discharge. So....maybe you really do have to avoid full discharge if you want to keep this type of battery economical.

With more electric cars/hybrids, battery costs will certainly come down--and better batteries will be designed.

[MoWndr]

The answer to the question is yes. I have the Travel 1003 and regularly charge it on the water with a 12 volt connection. From reading between the lines of much of the info out there about the Torqeedo, it leads me to following conclusion. It seems that all the charging electronics is in the batteries. So all you need is a proper polarity DC Source. For instance the Torqeedo solar panel is 44 volts. And this item, a 12 volt charging cable, is regularly offered on eBay by ePower Marine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/12volt-External-Battery-Charge-Cable-Torqeedo-Travel-503-1003-Ultralight-403-NEW-/281074741126?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item41715c2f86&vxp=mtr This 12V ePower charger will charge a spare battery or can even be used while using the Torqeedo to extend the battery life. One more link. http://thetorqeedoshop.com.au/range-extension-options-for-torqeedo-1003-and-ultralight/#more-1648 The aussies seem to be more involved in exploring electric propulsion.

I have been using the Torqeedo on my Windrider trimaran, but will soon using on my C-Dory 22. I highly recommend ePowerMarine, if you are looking into Torqeedos. Captain Todd is very knowledgeable about all electric boat power issues. It is good to talk with someone who is technically proficient.

Scott

[breausaw]

Thanks for the reply Scott.
I am close to pulling the trigger on a 1003 myself.
I assume you're using the 1003 to power a tender.

[thataway]

MoWndr--thanks, and most interesting comments and links. I followed the links, and also read the PDF Book by Todd Wells.

There is also a most interesting thread by Panbo (Ben Ellison) with his experience--and the comments are even more instructive:

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/07/the_travel_1003_a_serious_case_of_torqeedo_love.html

You are currently running the 1003 on the WindRider--a fairly efficient hull.
What is your experience with range, and speed?

You propose to use it on the C Dory 22--an entirely different hull. As I understand it the 1003 is about equivalent to 4 hp. A 4 hp gas outboard will push the C Dory 3 to 4 knots. The experience on the Panbo link does show a McGregor 26 using the 1003. It is a more easily driven hull than the C Dory 22. The McGregor 26 at 45 watts 1 mph and 10 hours 100 watts, 2 mph and 6 hours, 300 watts, 3mph and 2 hours. At 650 watts, he gets about 4 mph and less than an hour, at 1025 watts, he gets 4.5 mph and 35 minutes. It seems as if the use on the C dory 22 would be extremely limited due to the range at higher power outputs. I am trying to envision how one would use the Torquedo on a C Dory 22?

From the last link that MoWndr posted they had done a run in an inflatable (?) of about 20 miles, and the author posted this table:

1003 Range and time with two batteries

Watts Speed in knots Range in nm Run time hrs
50 watts 1.5 to 2 25 to 40 20
150 watts 2.5 to 3 17 to 21 7
Full speed 4 to 5 4 to 5 1

The 12 volt charging cord is certainly good news--assuming that you have a good source of constant 12 volts--as of course is the solar array--either to charge a spare battery (not cheap) or the battery you are using, to increase the range.

There have been a number of issues with the E 45 error--which apparently is an over current error--as well as connections problems. Perhaps these are in older motors.

thanks for any thoughts!

[Sea Wolf]

It would seem the solution for the Torqeedo's power demands would be to add a gasoline powered generator to your boat and run it full-time to continuously recharge the battery(ies). Hmmmmm………>>>>>>>>>>> full circle?

Joe.

[Aurelia]

Some interesting facts about the travel 503 and 1003 models that I have long suspected but not found evidence for.

Condensed version....You can charge the built-in battery directly from a 12v source at up to a 4amp rate even while the torqeedo motor is running. For some reason the company has not produced an accessory cord to do this although they mention it in the user manual but neglect to make that cable available. I also found a couple of owners who have been doing just that with homemade cables successfully for over a year. I think that ability would make it much more appealing to cruisers. Talk about range extending.....these just became far more feasible at least to me.

http://www.nestawayboats.com/page37.htm

[Doggyjazz]

I own a Torqueedo 1003s Travel.....with lithium ion battery.
I use it on my Seasport inflatable..approx 80 lbs.
At a slow trolling speed the battery will give me power for up to 18 hours without recharging.....but , .....if I run the motor at full power the charge only lasts approx. 15 minutes.
This Torqueedo (1003) model cannot be expected to propel any heavy boat any great distance especially if there is wind and currents to contend with.
I own a CD 19 angler and am considering putting the Torqueedo to the test here in the Crescent Beach/ Georgia Strait area to see if it can be used as an emergency kicker.
The 1003 motor with the removable battery that simply attaches to the too of the motor has been totally realiable for me. The throttle handle lcd display is excellent in that it gives me readings on percent of battery charge available and also the amount of power being used....the built in gps also determines how far you can travel based on the remaining charge.
Great for really small boats but I do not think it practical on REAL boats.
Hope this helps.

[Aurelia]

There is more discussion on this thread about the 1003 motor.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=21064&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Also, this is what I posted in that thread about our experience using the 1003 as a kicker on our 19 angler.
-------------------------------------------
We had the first chance to test our 1003 model on the boat Sunday morning.

Location:

Liberty Bay in Poulsbo
Sunny and glassy (no wind)
tide not a factor (high peak)

We started with the battery at 99% and tested slower to faster so the range estimates taken from the display would be a bit higher if we had started with that specific speed from the beginning.

With our heavily loaded 19 angler (2.5 adults,full fuel, and loads of stuff) we saw the following numbers:

30 watts = 1.2mph - 1kn - 17 hours on standard battery 20.4 statute mile range estimate
60 watts = 1.6mph - 1.4kn - 8.5 hours on standard battery 13.6 statute mile range estimate
97 watts = 2mph - 1.7kn - 5 hours on standard battery 10 statute mile range estimate
199 watts = 2.5mph - 2.2kn - 2.5 hours on standard battery 6.25 statute mile range estimate
509 watts = 3.3mph - 2.9kn - 1.1 hours on standard battery 3.63 statute mile range estimate
937 watts = 3.9mph - 3.4kn - 30 minutes on standard battery 1.95 statute mile range estimate

30 watts is the standard charge rate from the included charger whether it is connected to 120v AC or 12v DC. We will charge the battery from the house batteries on the boat and because it can charge while running, one could run at the 30 watts rate for a looooong time or just keep it connected to extend range at a higher speed.

60 watts is an estimate of the fast charge rate (I don't currently have one to test) for the available 85w fast charger. This higher charge rate is directly from an AC source or a higher voltage DC source at 24v+. The details of that DC feed are in the works to be tested but my first step-up converter turned out to be a dud. Range extending at this charge rate should also be possible.

We were happy with the thrust provided by this motor for our 19 and no longer have ANY anxiety about using it for a backup motor. The limited speed of less than 4mph means we will not affectively go against a strong current but that will never be necessary. We will have to think more like a sailboat when relying on the Torqeedo. It will be more than capable of pushing us to safety and away from dangers as we motor for the nearest safe anchorage and ride the tides as needed.

The approximately 6 mile range at 2.5mph is really the sweet spot for us and the distances we are normally dealing with in the Puget Sound and BC. With a charging cord connected, we could always stop for a while at the first safe spot we reach and try to "fix" the issue we are having while the range grows slowly back toward the 100% mark again. Our house bank could charge the Torqeedo battery at least twice more without any trouble. When our safety is concerned, our urgency to get there is no longer a factor.

Now I just need to refine the motor mounting.....

[South of Heaven]

[Aurelia]

We still like the Torqeedo and I do stand by my previous statements about our kicker use for the 19. There is however one recent development that may limit our future torqeedo needs.

We recently bought a near new Suzuki 2.5, and I have installed new V-lock mounts on the 19 transom and dinghy transom to allow plug-n-play motor use for either the Suzuki or Torqeedo. No more twisting of motor clamps for me.

In the last two years, we have done three specific trips (long runs, bigger water) in the boat where the limited kicker range of the Torqeedo made me (not worry per se), but think about how long I could stand to not have a small gas option as well at least for those trips. I knew the original mount on the 19 would have to be changed slightly to work with a short shaft Suzuki, and the current mount was failing and needed to be replaced anyway. So I took the opportunity to get the second motor and setup the boat for either. I have only used the little Suzuki once so far on the dingy and not yet on the 19 but I think it will work pretty well. It runs the 12ft Kaboat a little faster than the Torqeedo and is reasonably quiet at idle, in gear pushing 2.5 knots. We still like the Torqeedo, but to be honest, we plan to test the Suzuki further this spring, and if we don't miss the quieter dinghy operation of the Torqeedo too much, we may end up getting rid of it. I don't really like to keep what I don't use although a used 1003 would be of limited value and I can't say I would be too excited to buy that type of product used myself.

Our kicker use is almost exclusively for the dinghy, and the "short" shaft of the torqeedo is still quite long and did require extra care when approaching or leaving shore. The way I have the dinghy setup now, works better with the short shaft Suzuki and only protrudes as much as it needs to for a shallower underwater profile saving about 8-10 inches of draft. So that is a bonus for us as well.

We shall see how it goes...

Greg

[Marco Flamingo]

Greg,

How is your Suzuki attached to the V-Mount? Using the stock clamps? I have a Suzuki 2.5 hp and a Minn Kota electric that would be nice to swap out depending on what I'm doing. Any concerns about the V-Mount being rugged enough to handle the Suzuki in the water or on the trailer?

Mark

[Aurelia]

I have one bad picture on hand but let me take a few more tonight for added clarity.

It does use the stock clamps to mount to a small wood block bolted to the V-lock aluminum plate. I have the female V-lock bracket mounted to both boat and dinghy transoms and they are quite strong enough for this class of engine. I would not put a 10hp unit on it but I have used the torqeedo and Suzuki on them with no worry. You almost have to see one in person before you trust it but they are really overbuilt units. When the motor is tilted and locked upward on the C-dory, the weight of the kicker does just barely flex the mount plate (7/16 thick aluminum) enough to allow a little wiggle but I secure it backward with a strap from the grab handle in that position anyway and that strap negates any movement.

I also use a simple hand spun hex bolt as the lock key instead of the supplied spring pin to allow for easier use when both hands are lifting the motor.

I can just back the key bolt off a few turns and reach out and lift the motor and mount together and simply slide the whole deal into the mount on the dinghy and spin that key bolt a few turns to lock.

I was tired of leaning over and spinning mount clamps 4 times per anchorage.

Greg