Surge brakes downhill

willhave1day · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Surge brakes downhill

Apologies in advance (please move if you need to), we didn't get our Cdory just yet, but did pick up a new Glastron (w/disc brake galvanized EZ Loader) at the show and I'm really concerned about the surge brakes after reading all around here and on the net. And, well, there is a high concentration of experience here that even iboats can't touch!
For those of you still running surge brakes how happy are you with them when going down hill? What has changed about your towing/driving habits? From what I've read all over I have to get rid of the idea of locking out overdrive and just step on the brakes a bunch and keep slowing down. Is anyone happy with their surge brakes or is everyone draming for electric or electric/hydraulic?
All I hear is negative on on the net, and the couple posts I found here. If it is that bad I'll start a budget for the conversion.

Sneaks · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject:

Frankly, if you are talking C-22 size trailer I would ask Chris (Rana Verde) or Bill (Halcyon) for real world long distance dragging. There are other C-22 draggers on here with nearly as many miles on their surge brakes, but those two popped up immediately. Seems to me that most of the problems with surge brakes start with trailer/boat weights in the 6500 lb. and higher range.

Don

Adeline · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject:

I've got surge/drums and after 18 years I'm still very happy with them. The only problem I've had is sticking wheel cylinders. And that's totally my fault. I've committed myself to changing the fluid every year with DOT 4 and am fairly confident that this problem is gone. I replaced my original assemblies 3 or 4 years ago with "Galforite" assemblies and they still look like new. Others have gone to surge/discs but the feedback has been uneven. Mostly warped rotors(Tie-Down). Now vented rotors are the standard and I'm following the reports closely.

thataway · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject:

Agree with Sneaks. We have towed boats up to 8,000 lbs with surge brakes for many years and done fine. No problems with the C Dory 22 over the Rockies and Sierra. We now have a TC 255 and the weight is pushing 10,000 lbs--so that with that weight and the British Columbia rules, we are now going to use the electric over hyraulic.

We rarely use the vehicle brakes going down grades. With the lighter boats, the surge brakes don't seem to become hot with using mostly engine compression to keep the rig slowed. We always start off the top of a grade slowly--and if necessary touch the brakes firmly for a short time to slow back to a safe speed--but even in long grades we have not had a problem. We also carry an IR therometer and check the hubs, tires and brake discs on each of our rest stops (every two hours).

Doryman · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject:

What brand(s) and/or supplier(s) of IR thermometers do you recommend? I have been meaning to get one for quite some time now.

Thanks,
Warren

teflonmom · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: Surge brakesdownhill

We have used surge brakes on boat trailers for over 15 years.Most of our problems were with tandem trailers and brake adjustment(drum style brakes) It is important to have a good mechanic or learn how to do it for your self.
I hope we have solved the problem . We now tow our CD-22 on a single axel trailer with disk brakes. Self adjusting! I worry about blow outs on a SA trailer but plan to keep good rubber on the wheels and carry a spare and a good jack.

Make sure you keep the brake fluid filled and the surge slide lubricated. Always keep your bearings lubed.

We only have about 5000 miles on our SA. So far so good.

Have fun with your new rig!

willhave1day · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks that is all great information. FWIW the boats a 185, 2375# dry. Should be right comfy behind our 4.0L Ranger now that I hear some positive comments.

thataway · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject:

I have two of the Radio Shack IR units--they are on sale peroidically for $29. They have always agreed and been equal to other ways of measuring temperature.

Rob & Karen · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: Surge Brakes & Tandem Axles

TyBoo · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject:

I have a certified Raytech unit that I used to use at work. They can be found at Grainger for around $600 and probably don't do anything any better than the $29 RS unit! If I was buying the thing, Radio Shack would be great.

Those things are actually pretty handy for use with a trailer - especially a tandem axle. Checking the external hub temps after a cruise on the freeway will tell you things about loading and trailer attitude. Front hubs hotter than the rear can mean the tongue is too low. Hotter rear hubs, tongue too high. Both hubs on one side hotter than the other side can be from uneven loading or the boat too far off center on the bunks. One hub hotter than the other three is a sign of trouble at that wheel. My hubs are usually between 100º and 115º everytime I check them. An inch off center with the boat, and the temps on the heavy side will be at the upper end of the range while the other side is cooler. The temps are so predictable that a 10º difference is rare and would make me nervous a long way from home.

I didn't carry the IR when the brakes were new and at their hottest, but the rotors now run anywhere from 200º to 400º. Hot enough to sizzle spit, but not enough to light a match. I do have a new set of brakes to put on, so I will be watching the temps of the rotors closely on the next long trip.

Alasgun · Guest

Im sorry but I cant resist. I have looked at this several times today and the title just begs for a smart alect reply!

Surge Brakes Downhill, well folks, if your not towing a C-dory aren't you going downhill no matter where your road leads?

We have and use the surge brakes on our 25 ftr with no problems to date, and we have some BIG hills between me and Seward. Surely the Duramax / Allison combination is a factor as well!
Mike on Huda Thunkit CoolSmile

willhave1day · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

LOL!!
It's alright Mike, you're not too far off but I think that the grade is not as steep as it could be with some "other" brands behind my truck Wink

Would have been a cd25 instead if it were last years boat show prices. The $15k price increase this year really discouraged us. So we will enjoy what we have for a while, let the CD fund grow some more, and I'll get my kicks watching my friends eat water on their wake boards behind my new boat. Cool

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject:

It's just a good thing you got an EZLoader. The King Trailer guy at the SBS said you are not supposed to drive down hill with a King.

Be sure and slow that SST down when you come by us old guys on the CDs.

teflonmom · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Surge Brakes

The brake adjustment problem on our tandem trailer was a drum brake problem. One of the adjusters broke or screwed up and left the RR brake drag as we went down the road. The tire and wheel got hot and we thought it was a bering problem. We added grease and proceeded at a slower pace(No spare bearing set and a Sunday) We got home only about 60 miles after we discovered the problem. We put new brakes and bearings on all 4 wheels. The trailer lasted another trip to FL and until we sold the boat.(Nimble Nomad)

I really like the idea of disk brakes. I think there is a lot less to go wrong. They do get hot on long downhill runs, but not so hot as to cause grease to leak from the bearings.

willhave1day · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject:

Tyboo, the EZ Loader guy at the SBS said basically the same thing and "if you do, don't downshift". I couldn't resist saying "if I'm not supposed to drive down hill how would I get my boat anywhere around here?". Razz

But he did also make the good suggestion that discs were worth the few more dollars in the total boat package so I did.

His modified statement was to ensure the trailer is completly level front to back because the angle of attack on the ball could affect braking; (makes sense) and again, don't downshift. Without a trailer I have to down shift going over Stevens to Lake Wenatchee to camp so I'll do it anyway and see what happens. We're also planning to tow it down to Commanche in CA to meet up with the yearly family bash on labor day so the Siskiyous will be fun. Again, good news though from everyone's reply. Thanks again.