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beradon
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 30
City/Region: CAPE CORAL
State or Province: FL
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 Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: Thats Great Dave |
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| Plenty fast for me. If the water is calm and I could comfortably cruise at 20 or 25 , I'm happy. At least I know if it gets rough, I can slow down and still make it to port without getting our brains shook loose |
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oldgrowth
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2196
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Voyager
Photos: C-Voyager
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| lloyds wrote: | | Dave, how you getting that much speed out of your boat? My 16 has to really work to get 30. It has a 11.4X12 3-blade oem prop that will wind out past 6000. I have a 11X13 prop that I had been using but could only get 5600, and no more speed so I put the old one back on. I can't be any heavier than you are, other than I sometimes carry up to 12 gallons of gas. |
Lloyd – I think I am heavier than you are most of the time. I usually have 21-gallons of gas, a generator, 12v cooler, five gallons or more of water plus much other gear. Loaded as such I can get 28 knots or about 32 mph.
At the Sequim CBGT, I was alone without extra gas, generator and less gear. There I could just hit 30 knots or 34 - 35 mph. My prop is an aluminum C 3x11.1x13. I assume you have the 50HP Honda also, so the only difference would be the permitrim. I have to tweak it as my speed increases. Without the permitrim, I could not reach the speeds I do.
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Dave 
Last edited by oldgrowth on Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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westward
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 718
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Steady Eddy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings!
My understanding is that the 19' is basically the same hull form as the 22' but shortened by 3'. My general sense of boat design immediately says to go with the 22 if the budget allows. Decreasing the running surface on the same hull would tend to decrease overall hull efficiency and could lead to porpoising, poor tracking, balance issues, etc. I don't think you'd really save much fuel either, but I have no data to back this up. Best wishes to you whatever you decide. Mike. |
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SeaSpray
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 1007
City/Region: Brentwood, CA
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaSpray
Photos: SeaSpray
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dave,
You said "the only difference would be the permatrim. I have to tweak it as my speed increases. Without the permatrim, I could not reach the speeds I do."
I am very curious about this. With my 22 when I added the permatrim may top speed was reduced by a few knts. Also trimming the motor up or down does not seem to make any difference in the speed.
I have found that trimming the tabs all the way down does increase speed. I was thinking of taking the permatrim off and putting the original plastic thing back on for comparison.
What do you do to tweak the permatrim to get more speed?
Steve |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20813
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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randykolchuk
I would appreaciate if you would post your comparison of the Parker and C Dory. Both well respected boats.
We considered 30 as the top speed for our 22 C Dory--but it was always fairly well loaded. The boats "dance around" a little bit at higher speeds, but are stable.
Now as for stable at higher speeds--the TC 's do that very well. We run at 25 to 30 knots most of the time and can get up into the 40's. But don't look at any of the C Dories as "go fast boats".
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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oldgrowth
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2196
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Voyager
Photos: C-Voyager
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| seabran wrote: | Hi Dave,
You said "the only difference would be the permatrim. I have to tweak it as my speed increases. Without the permatrim, I could not reach the speeds I do."
I am very curious about this. With my 22 when I added the permatrim may top speed was reduced by a few knts. Also trimming the motor up or down does not seem to make any difference in the speed.
I have found that trimming the tabs all the way down does increase speed. I was thinking of taking the permatrim off and putting the original plastic thing back on for comparison.
What do you do to tweak the permatrim to get more speed?
Steve |
Steve – as my speed increases I have to give the engine a little more bow down trim to keep it from floating on me. Then as I reach the maximum speed at that attitude, I start rising the bow ever so slightly, then waiting for a half minute or so for my speed to increase. Once the boat and speed has stabilized I trim for a little more bow up attitude. There is never an immediate change in the boats speed or handling because the change is so slight. It may take a half minute or more to notice a change. I keep doing this until I reach a point where any more bow up attitude will cause the bow to start floating. If I hit that point, I go back down and start back up until I get back to the point just before the bow starts floating. Sometimes you will not notice an increase in the indicated speed from one setting to the next but will notice a slight difference in RPM. This is because you gained less than 1 mph.
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Dave
Last edited by oldgrowth on Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lloyds
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1724
City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Dave, thanks for the additional explanation of the use of the Permatrim. Guess I am going to have to keep experimenting. I am apparently running much lighter than you but do not get that much speed. Another reason to pray for spring, get to play with the trim. |
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Da Nag
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2819
City/Region: Port Angeles
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Taco
Photos: <a>Da Boats</a>
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| westward wrote: | Greetings!
My understanding is that the 19' is basically the same hull form as the 22' but shortened by 3'. My general sense of boat design immediately says to go with the 22 if the budget allows. Decreasing the running surface on the same hull would tend to decrease overall hull efficiency and could lead to porpoising, poor tracking, balance issues, etc. |
I've had both...started with the 19, moved up to 22. There are certainly differences in how people rig their boats, but the following are my experiences with the two boats powered essentially the same - a single + small kicker.
There is no noticeable difference in porpoising, tracking or balance between to the two boats, in my experience - assuming proper engine trim and/or trim tab positioning.
There is a difference in efficiency, depending on the situation. The transition from displacement to planing happens more quickly on the 22, and it happens at a slightly lower speed. As such, I find the 22 a more comfortable and better handling boat when things are "medium sloppy" - that is, when the chop keeps you in the 8-10MPH range, and you're on/off the throttle frequently.
In very good or very nasty waters, there is very little difference in how the two boats handle. I got stuck in SF Bay on my way back to Berkeley one afternoon, in some very ugly stuff. Likewise, I recently crossed Juan de Puka in equally nasty conditions in the 22. The 22 was less stressful, but only because of the reduced noise due to the enclosed cabin...neither boat felt any more seaworthy than the other, they both handled things admirably.
In general, the 19 is more sensitive to weight aft than the 22. It's fairly well accepted now, that keeping things light back there makes a significant difference. Were I to rig one again, I'd get a light single, no kicker, and keep the minimum safe amount of fuel on board necessary for the trip.
In general, I like the 22 better. However, insofar as fishing goes, the 19 has some very nice features. The gunnels are much wider - makes for a much nicer platform upon which to mount things, and it's much more comfortable to rest your butt on. The sides under the gunnels are enclosed with flotation, but if you don't mind giving up a minor amount of it, you can mount tackle boxes in there - check out the photos at the bottom of this page for examples. Access from the helm to your rods is much nicer in the 19 - you can be on them in 2 seconds, with no need to step through a doorway. Even though the cockpit size is pretty similar between a 22 Cruiser and a 19 Angler, it's more functional on the 19 given the open cabin.
Can't go wrong with either...just pick the one that suits your needs best.
_________________
 Will, C-Brat Nerd |
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randykolchuk
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
City/Region: Gibraltar, Michigan
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Barefoot Girl
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the only real similarities in the C-Dory and Parker 2120 are that both have a pilot house and outboard power. Mind you, I owned the C-Dory 25, and it was more of a cruiser, verses the fishing aspects of the Parker. I did most of my boating on the open waters of Lake Erie. If you tried to go to fast in the Dory, you were quickly reminded that it is a low speed planing vessel. The C-Dory cabin would shake if I took on a head sea over 11 or 12 knots, this was not so in the Parker. However, there was nothing nicer than a calm evening crossing Erie at 14 knots. I would strongly recommend autopilot for any long distance cruising. I wish I would have had a single 125 or 150 on the C-Dory, because the twin engines could never really be opened up unless it was very calm. It was nice having the insurance, but I would have been happy with one main and a kicker. If you want a cruiser, I say go with the Dory, but if you are running 15-30 miles out to fish, and want to make time, the Parker is the way to go. Both vessels were stable while fishing, and rode well in beam and following seas. I don't own the C-Dory anymore, but the website is great.
p.s. The Dory had a much nicer door and I liked the bare cabin walls. The Parker would get a few more points for wiring, housing of outboard cables, and transom design (the Parker had a metal backing Plate inside the splash well) |
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SeaSpray
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 1007
City/Region: Brentwood, CA
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaSpray
Photos: SeaSpray
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info Dave.
I don't think my boat acts the same but I will try your method next time out.
With the Permatrim if I trim up about 3/4 up my boat will start porpoissing - maybe the same as your floating. I have to trim back down to get it to stop. This did not happen with the original whale tail.
Steve |
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