19' or 22' C-Dory

[beradon]

Hi C-Dory People, I need help deciding on what to buy. I'm just retired and am moving to Capr Coral, FL in about 3 months. I was set on a 22 cruiser but I'm considering a 19 for a couple of reasons. From what I've heard, in water storage is hard to find in the Cape area and towing a 22 with my little Tacoma isn't too practical. Its generally just the wife and I and the dog that are out boating. I'll probably be on the water at least 3 days a week so I need something convenient. Dry stack docking is available from 8-5 but I want to go out-when I want to go out and If I feel like night fishing, I just want to go.

I guess my question is, will a 19' handle the Gulf of Mexico "chop". Can I safely go 8-10 miles offshore(watching the whether of course) in a 19'? The upside is cheaper fuel-being able to wash the boat out at my house, and of course initial cost, but will it work for us? Appreciate any suggestions-recommendations, etc.

[Sea Wolf]

beradon-

I'll leave the Gulf chop conditions discussion to someone from that area, but comment on the boat itself.

The biggest difference is not the three feet in length, although it does make some difference. I would think the slightly longer boat would bridge the chop better, but it depnds on the wave period, somewhat. The 19 does require trim tabs, however, or it will hobby-horse at planning speed, and definitely needs them in chop.

The big difference will be the enclosed nature of the 22 vs the 19, and the accomodations within.

The enclosed cabin is great for colder climates and for keeping the weather and rain out. But if you're not planning on overnight camping in the boat or operating in cold weather, you may well not need the enclosed cabin and also the extra galley space it additionally encloses.

In fact, the open rear (which can be enclosed in canvas and isinglass (really clear vinyl) may be an asset for air circulation and comfort.

If you can see a signifigance difference in your ability to tow, handle, and store the two boats, it may well be the deciding factor.

One last thought, though. The 19 was introduced somewhere around 2000 or 2001, as I remember, so you will have to pay for a more recent model boat with the 19, whereas the 22's are available in much older vintages, which may be somewhat cheaper. I have seen some 19's available at very reasonable prices recently, however.

I'm sure others will chime in on this issue. Da Nag is one (perhaps the only one) who has owned both. He's have some very astute points to make, I hope.

Good Luck with whatever you decide!

Joe.

[beradon]

Thanks Joe, Appreciate your ideas. I'm planning on buying a new boat unless I can find a "like new" one. I guess with boats, its always a compromise. Bigger is not always better. Last year I had a 19' CC and I cruised the Dealaware around Philadelphia. Even when the whether was perfect, there wern't many boats on the water. The big yachts just seemed to sit but I was still out 3-4 times a week. In water storage was only 800. per season but the problem is the season is too short;about 4-5 months. I like the idea of a Pilot house for Florida becauseof the 15 minutes showers that happen almost every day and it does drop down into the high 50s some nights so being protected will be great. And of course the "head" will allow longer trips. I don't plan on overnighting very often but the option would be nice even if its for a short nap. I think the V-berths are the same size as the 22'.

We won't be cooking on the boat other than coffee if we overnight so I can magage without the galley. The sink would be nice but I guess we can magage with the raw water washdown.

One of our favorite activity's is beaching the boat and having a barbecue so a 19 might work out better for that. Florida is loaded with nice sandy beaches that we can't wait to explore.

Cape Coral-Ft. Meyers has has several launch ramps and they are free so thats not an issue. Another thing I like about trailering is being able to get my fuel at a gas station instead of a fuel dock-cheaper and fresher in most cases. The more I think about it, trailering might be the way to go.

I just don't want to make a purchase that I'll regret-decisions, decisions

[SEA3PO]

I think I would opt for the 22' not only for the resale value...but I appreciate knowing that the 22' will stand up to almost any sort of sea or weather condition safely...I don't think there is much towing difference...

Joel
SEA3PO

[C-Otter]

Maybe you should get a 22 Angler. Hull weight is only 50 pounds more than 19 footer? C-Otter

[thataway]

The issue with the Gulf Of Mexico--especially with your planed frequent trips--is what the weather may do, when you are out there.

I don't know what Tacomia you have--but the V 6 with trailer tow prep has the capacity to tow a 22. Agree the smaller engine is a bit short; the truck weight is "OK" . We towed the 22 C D on a trandem Axle trailer up and down some steep mountain passes with a Honda Pilot, which is rated for 3500 lbs except boat of 4500 lbs. The idea being that an RV trailer has more wind resistance at high speeds. You will be towing short distances to ramps, at city speeds. The biggest issue will be brakes, not pulling power at high speeds or over mountain passes. (Plus once many of us are hooked on the C Dory line, we end up with larger trucks as we go up in boat size!).

I think that the enclosed back, the galley/sink, refigerator (if you choose) the ability to go to the Bahamas or Keys if you wish, plus what I precieve as increased sea worthyness of the 22, would push me to that boat--and still consider towing it. I don't think you will find much difference in the 19 or 22 in city traffic/launching etc. The other issue in Florida is ability to store the boat on your property. There are some areas with restrictions.
Fortunately we live in a community where a boat or two in the driveway and on a lift is the norm. But check out your CC&R if you haven't yet do so.

Good luck, and you will enjoy all sorts of great boating in the Cape Coral area!.

[beradon]

Thanks Guys-You bring up some great points. For some reason I thought there was a substancial weight difference but according to the 06 catalog, the 22 is only 275 pounds more. My 04 Toyota is a 4 cylinder-4 wheel drive and towing capacity is 3500 pounds so I'll be ok especially since the Cape Coral area is so flat.

I would love to take both of them for a "test run" but probably won't be able to since the dealer in S. Florida isn't on the water. I'm planning on a 90 hp because I'd like to hit mid to high 30s if i have to outrun bad weather.

My first choice is going to have to be right since I'll be taking the "buying new" hit so a 22' probably makes more sense. Thanks everyone!

[oldgrowth]

I think you are over optimistic about out running a storm in the mid to high 30’s. If a storm is coming, chances are there is already some chop and wave action. If there is you will beat yourself to death at those speeds in a C-Dory.

Of the three boats you are considering, the 22 cruiser will hold it resale value better than the other two. So if you ever decide to sell you will make more money.
________
Dave

[thataway]

I sure agree with Dave, don't ever count on out running storms. We may not have quite as many in the Fl. Panhandle, but so have them. I have driven boats which run in the high 30's to low 40's and have not been able to out run storms. Once that chop gets up, you are gong to slow down and ride it out--and the 22 is superb at that. You want a boat which is safe no matter what you get into. I don't advise taking a C Dory intentionally out in really rough stuff, But we have been in some 8 to 10 footers with relitatively short peroids, plus surface chop and did fine at a slow speed.

[Chris Bulovsky]

Even if I lived in Florida I would still want a hard top. Just to keep the dammed sun off you. The Cabin of a C-Dory is pretty cool with the windows open in 80-90 temps. I see your a fisherman so a 19 would work for you but if your thinking resale go 22. I fish a fair bit out of a 22. aside from the occasional thump on the gourd from not ducking enough when crossing the door frame its rather pleasurable to fish from. The 22 is a sweet boat to be in when the weather goes to hell. Lake superior gets ugly from time to time and I have yet to be afraid in this boat. What ever you pick each has its virtue. Both are handsome boats that are functional. Two things I really like.

Either way you cant go wrong.

Do you fish for sharks????


Good boat hunting!!!
Chris Bulovsky

[beradon]

That's a beautiful restoration if I ever saw one. I've been boating for the last 30 years and have owned several boats. Always CCs but now that I'm moving to Florida and have plenty of time on my hands, I need a Pilot house. I want protection from the sun and now that I don't have to report to work, I wanna be a nomad. If we end up at a marina 50 miles from home, we'll just stay over.

Apparently outrunning storms was a bad choice of words. What I meant was having the being able to travel a reasonable distance in a relatively short time. Over the years on more then one occasion I've seen the weather turn sour real quick (while the CG was still predicting perfect conditions) and I decided to head in. It's not fun being in a CC w/o a T-top getting pelted with cold rain, passengers, gear, and the dog soaked to the gills. If a C-dory isn't comfortable running at 20+ mph in a "healthy chop" I'll probably go with my second choice, a 21' Parker. Very close in price and also 1 heck of a boat with one big advantage over a CD which is the self draining cockpit-It has two 1" x 3" scuppers which I like. I've called CD and asked about installing "one way" drains and they said it can't be done; won't work.

One thing that puzzles me is why the resale on a 19' is worse than a 22'. Aren't all CDs in demand? I would think 16s-19s-22s- and25s would depreciate equally. They are all great boats and logic would indicate the 19 is a popular craft, especially for protected waters?

Oh, and yes, I plan on doing some sharking. I'm not going to go after the monsters but I'd love to hook some 3 or 4 footers. I can't wait to get to Florida!

[thataway]

If you jump to the Parker (a well respected boat) you are going to be over the capacity of the Tacoma for sure. The Parker does not have a galley (at least the ones I have seen). The Parker is popular for fishing, but does ont have the opening window, so not as good ventillation in hot weather--and that makes a difference.

As you get to heavier chop--and it depends on your comfort level--various boats will ride differently--depending on if you are going down or up wind etc. If I was out there in 8 foot seas, (which I have been--and a lot more) I would rather be in a C Dory than a parker. There will be a narrow range where the Parker may run a bit faster in the chop--but then there will be a place where the C Dory will actually be able to make better way, as the conditions worsen. For a moderate V like the Parker, the boat does not semiplane at 8 to 15 knots. You are either going 8 knots or 18 knots, the boat does not do well in between, Because of the Semi Dory hull, the C Dory will maintain speed in some really nasty conditions in the 15 knot range--something very ineffecient--if not impossiabel in a V hull.

[beradon]

Yup, the Parker is a heavy boat and without a doubt the biggest 21' I have ever seen. And yes, towing is out of the question with my Tacoma.

I have to find a CD dealer on the water and go for a test ride. I'm in suburban Philadelphia now and I've never seen a CD on the water except for one docked at the Raccoon Marina in NJ. That was last year and it sparked my interest. I started researching them and.......well here I am.

I drove down to my local dealer, Cutters in Maryland to take an up close and personal look at one but I got sick on the way and only took a real fast look. I'm x-military and I have Meniere's syndrome caused by a mortar explosion 15 feet away from me-Meniere's causes flu like symptoms but much worse and they crop up w/o notice. At any rate I boarded a brand new 22', opened the cabin door and the smell of fiberglass, chemicals, resins, etc hit me like a ton of bricks and my tour was over. Unfortunately I was too sick for a test drive so I couldn't get a feel for how they "ride".


Cutters is a great dealership-I told them I would take a train from Phila and drive the boat home and they said I could stay at their dock for as long as I wanted so I could get some break in hours on the boat and get use to her but now that I'm moving to Florida, I'll be buying from another dealer. I have considered every Pilot house boat made and narrowed it down to a Parker or CD but with in water storage very expensive & even hard to find in FL, I'll be trailering-either a 19 or a 22 CD. Thanks for the great advice everybody!

[Sea Wolf]

beardon-

You asked

"One thing that puzzles me is why the resale on a 19' is worse than a 22'. Aren't all CDs in demand? I would think 16s-19s-22s- and25s would depreciate equally. They are all great boats and logic would indicate the 19 is a popular craft, especially for protected waters?"

In my opinion, the reason the 22 has such a high resale value and is proportionately easier to resell is that it has most all the features needed by most fishermen and couples, and as such, it's the most versatile of all the C-Dory's, while still being affordable to a large proportion of boaters.

The CD-25 and Tom Cat, while being larger and more capable than the 22, are quite a bit more expensive, and also require larger tow vehicles, which can be an extra expense for those that don't already have them. Cost wise, they're just plain out of reach for some boaters.

The 16 is an amazingly capable and affordable boat in itself, but lacks the spaciousness needed for overnighting and camping by most couples and families. Some C-Dory owners of larger models are discovering that it's a great day boat for fishing, being escpecially easy to launch and retrieve.

The 19 is basically a 22 w/o some of the interior comfort ammenities. The v-berth is the same as the 22, but the convertible dinnete/3rd berth and galley are missing, as is the Alaskan Bulkhead. It's a great day boat and fishing machine, but doesn't fit overnight and family camping needs as well as the 22.

When most folks start shopping for a C-Dory, they investigate all the models, and a large proportion settle on the 22 because of it's combination of ammenities, size, and affordability. The affordability is especially made true due to the availability of the many older, used, CD-22 models.

Joe.

[beradon]

Now I understand and i think its a geographical thing. Overnighting in the Philadelphia / NJ area is pretty uncommon. People with larger boats will sleep on board at their marina but rarely in the Delaware River because there is so much commercial traffic. Its a semi Industrial area until you get down to the Chesapeake Bay region which is about a 40 miles trip. Also venturing out of the channel is dangerous because there is all kinds of submerged junk in these waters. Rocks, pilings, submerged barges, etc. And you wouldn't believe the floating junk. Railroad ties and telephone poles are very common and the worse thing about them is they are mostly submerged; not visible even in a slight chop until you are almost on top of them. Last year after a storm I saw a dead horse floating in the river! Jeez, I can't wait to get to Florida!

As far as finding a used CD in the NE, its next to impossible. Apparently a huge majority of C-Dory's production stays in the West. Like I said in a earlier post, I've been boating these waters for over 30 years and have only seen 1 CD, and it was docked in a NJ marina. I'm certain 16s and 19s would be very, very popular in these waters if we had a local dealership.
Parker sightings are very common in NJ and I'll bet there would be an equal amount of CDs if they were available. From what I understand, the few dealers on the east coast are allotted a dozed or so boats a year. Special order are available if you are willing to pay a shipping premium or wait until the dealer has a truckload coming in.

For now, thanks to the help of you guys here, I'm set on a 19'. It will be easier to tow, launch and store and provide enough comfort for my Wife and I and in Florida I don't have to go far to find good fishing. And Florida has a lot of lakes with big Bass where a smaller boat might be "handier"