Design Changes to the 22 Cruiser

[Pat Anderson]

What a huge step in the wrong direction...

[Sea Wolf]

I don't know if anyone else feels this same way, but with the HUGE PROBLEMS OF QUALITY CONTROL in the TomCat 255 and to a lesser extent the CD-25 Cruiser (plumbing and electrical), I'm finding my blind loyality to the C-Dory factory, product, and image in great jeopardy. Add in the many profit motivated changes introduced over the last several years, several of which have proven deletrious, and I'm afraid I'm in danger of "losing my religion"!!! What say the rest of you? Joe.

[416rigby]

I say let's hear from the factory to see what the deal is...is the interior cabinetry going to remain the same or not? I can't imagine doing some of the cool mods, like Minnow's sink, unless the standard plywood is installed. Very easy to customize to suit the owner.

Part of the appeal of the CD is the very fact that the owner CAN customize to suit their use. That's part of the fun of CD ownership and this board, for that matter.

Makes me glad I bought a 2001 model. It would be sad if people who buy new won't be afforded the flexibility to do some of the fun stuff we've done with our boats.

Rick

[TyBoo]

Naw - this has to be another one of those things we are reading too much into. They wouldn't do that. One of the reasons the C-Dory has so much charm is because it really doesn't have any until the owner provides it. Among the first things that cross people's minds when they really study the simple interior of the boat they just bought is, "I'm gonna change that...". And then they do. Maybe twice. Look at how much fun we have all had with the so-called electronics shelf in the CD22 over the years. It is a dorky looking thing; almost an afterthought by the builders, it appears. But it is so easy to make it into anything you want. And if you save the original chunk of wood from up there, you can restore it to original.

Everything you buy has something about it someone doesn't really care for. In today's stamp-it-out, build it-here-and-assemble-it-there, plug-and-play, uni-body, wussywig world there are too few products that can be easily and inexpensively made "your own". While I am still in disagreement with the aptness of the term, the majority believes that C-Dory owners are members of a cult of sorts. Well, cults have to have their icons and cult members have to be able to make the icon suit their personalities or they will lose faith. If the collection plate is molded into the pew it can't be passed around the congregation.

[TyBoo]

On the other hand - maybe this is where RF's vision of wealth for me and Bill comes true. If they do turn it into a Bayliner, the used boats will all become collectible classics and we can collect a surcharge from the buyers of boats offered for sale on here. Kind of like Southebys...

And you wondered why we keep such tight editing controls the For Sale thread.

[CatyMae n Steve]

[mjuds]

If you're interested in what the cockpit liner looks like on the new 22's check out the "the first days" photo's in my album. I am finally picking the boat up from EQ Harbor Service this week weather permitting. Tried to get it last week put ran into some electronics problems that Les had to sort out. We did do the sea trials last week. That was lots of fun. We have had record rains here in the NW and many of the rivers have been at flood. As a result Coronet Bay and Deception Pass were full of trees, logs and other junk that was chugging along at 4 to 6 knots in the Deception Pass current. We had a great time trying trying to avoid all this and it made for an interesting day on the water.

[Sea Wolf]

mjuds-


Thanks for the pictures!

To our relief, it looks as though the liner is in the cockpit only.


So as long as one doesn't mind the slightly raised and flatened floor, it will be a welcome addition.

Joe.

[CHardy]

I Just e mailed Jeff at the factory about this topic...(I finally sold my Sea Ray and will buy now or wait for the 2007 depending on what he says AND your recommendations!)..will share what he tells me.

Chris

[mjuds]

I was told when I bought the boat that under the raised floor of the cockpit liner the factory installed foam like that under the forward berths. I would assume that this is for extra floatation

[Sea Wolf]

[drjohn71a]

You know, Joe,

I really do not think there are "huge quality control problems in the TomCat" 255. Half of Thataway's problems are with flexible, nylon attachments and hose clamps, and caulk seams. The temperature build up in a closed boat in Florida can cycle to nudge 140 degrees. The boat was shipped from a cool, wet climate, thru a hot, dry climate, to a hot, humid climate over 3,000 miles of concrete road.

Thermal cycling, vibrations, and simply the passing of time contribute to loosening fittings on campers, motorhomes, as well as boats. It is the normal task of an owner to check for and tighten or reseal each area as needed. I don't think a sealant/caulk exists that never shrinks, or that could accidentally be placed with a void, or upon an oily spot, etc.. Such is life.

My last new diesel motorhome cost several times the amount of the TomCat and piddly little problems arose from day one. Even the Cummins diesel engine had an injector tube fitting come loose and spray fuel until retightened. Just like the TomCat, there are dozens of instruction manuals for all the "added" parts like fridge, water heater, water pump, etc.. The more systems you have in a craft, the more likely that something will loosen, leak, or malfunction in some way.

Decades ago, I arrived at one of my "Facts of Life" sayings:

"Everything you own, owns you - there is responsibility taken on with ownership." That is, once you buy something, you have to house it, clean it , protect it, repair it, and periodically recondition it. Having a 5,000 square foot house is twice the responsibility of a 2500 square foot house, four times the responsibility of a 1250 square foot house, and eight times the responsibility of a 625 square foot apartment. You have to clean it, insure it, paint it, fix it, heat/cool it, etc.. El and Bill have this down to a fine art, you know!

So, when one purchases a boat, the larger it is, the more responsibility it is. Those two 150 hp outboards on a TomCat require alot more fuel and upkeep than a 16 foot C-Dory's 50 hp outboard. Two outboards are twice as likely to have a problem as one outboard regardless of the brand name. Housing, storage, winterizing is a major responsibility. If there is no sink/water pump, water heater, you eliminate any problems with those systems.

The new C-Ranger 25 tugs are beautiful with many MORE optional systems - generator, heat pump, engine water heater, thrusters. The more systems you have added on to whatever boat, the more likely you are to have some problems. This should not be a surprise. The universe, unattended, tends to chaos. Such is life.

Buy only that for which you are willing and able to be responsible!

John

[Sea Wolf]

John-

There's a great deal of truth to what you've said. Thank you!

At the same time, there do seem to be a lot more quality control issues recently, and while many or even most of them seem to be with the more complex boats, it does seem disturbing, and one wonders why some of the simpler problems continue to slip through.

We'll just have to see what develops as time progresses. I'll certainly keep your thoughts in mind as we watch for further developments!

Nice talking with you!

Joe.

[Cutty Sark]

I have the raised flat floor in the cockpit, and love it. It was the one thing my wife really disliked about the Cdory. She didn't really like the floorboards, and really disliked the dri deck mats that some people use. But she also grew up riding in bayliners . Seriously, the new floor is great, the height difference is minute, all the fish slime and goo moves towards the back of the cockpit when you wash it down( not under the floorboards or your feet) and it has larger steps on the side. To my eye it looks alot nicer, but that just personal preference. As far as the interior, I also would have liked a molded interior, but thats just me. I dont plan on changing the layout much, and I like the ease of mantenance/cleaning fiberglass, compared to the wood. On a side note what does everyone use to clean the decrawhatever inside? I seem to have trouble getting it really clean, and don't want to scratch it all up. I can see using the wood might be better for some customizing, but I don't think it will change the boat that much. Maybe they can offer either depending on what the customer wants? I wonder what the difference in weight would be, which would be heavier? I also would really like a flat floor inside the cabin. I would gladly give up two inches for that( but I'm only 5' 10"). I see good reasons to do it both ways, but would vote for the update of the interior liner overall.

Sark

[True Story]

Well said drjohn71a and thanks for sharing your refreshing perspective! Obviously, your glass is half full. Tim