Placement of heater

Lee · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: Placement of heater

I'm going to get a heater soon for my boat. Probably a force 10 propane or diesel. I've seen some pictures here of nice installation jobs above the galley but I sure would like to get it closer to the floor.

So I'm on the boat today looking around and thinking about this project. I started looking at the rather useless cooler under the seat. Why not pull the cooler out and put the heater there, not way back in out of sight but just inset enough to be out of the way as you walk by. You would have to route the flue up between the seat and the counter top which could be a problem if it gets very hot. How hot does that pipe get? And putting a bend or two in the pipe might not be very easy. Maybe some jointed pipe could be used. One would have to check for the proper amount of clearance around the heater and probably use plenty of metal to make sure adjacent wood surfaces don't get too hot.

Bet I'm not the first to think about this. Anyone done it or thought about it and decided it was not feasible. Thanks in advance for your ideas!

colobear · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject:

you might want to look at the installation of my Webasto, under the galley. Photos are in C-Cakes album. it is out of the way andworks for me.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject:

Lee-

A lot of folks have had to deal with this issue. There's just no place down near the floor on the 22 Cruiser, at least, where the heater can be mounted easily w/o some interference. Add the difficulty of getting the exhaust tube up and out the roof, and most just give up and mount it up around the galley somewhere. (Larry H did mount the stove on the door, venting the exhaust through the door and out and away up the back. See the Nancy H album.)

The big problem with mounting the heater in the cabinet space set up for the ice box, is , of course, the exhaust pipe. IT DOES GET HOT. Hot enough that if you touch it, you'll hear the sizzle before you feel the burn! It would have to be surrounded by a ventilated shroud and an airspace in between to prevent skin or other material contact, much like they put chromed, hole perforated and ventilated shrouds around truck exhaust stacks.

Bending the 1" stainless tube can be tough. I had to make a crude jig and use the weight of my full sized van's front wheel to bend it, although a railmaker's shop can do it easily. (Larry H used 1" copper pipe and soldered connectors instead!)

There are some restrictions Force 10 places on the installation of the Cozy Cabin heater. There should be no more than two 45 degree bends in the exhaust tube. Also, it should be a minimum of 30 inches in length and a maximum of 10 feet in length to obtain the proper draft. Go to the Force 10 website and download the installation manual for the heater to get the full low down.

Since the exhaust tube does give off a lot of heat, having a long tube exposed to the air will allow you to get a greater amount of heat out of the heater and lose less out the stack to the air.

You're right about the need for metal shielding around the heater when it's near wood or other combustibles. This can be done fairly easily , of course.

I don't doubt this type of installation can be done, but it will be tricky and you will have to be very precise about making sure the details get done right.

If you have kids or animals about, you'll want to be sure to put a guard/shroud over the front of the heater to prevent contact. Even a piece of clothing or a sleeping bag can be easily ignited by a heater in that position. Probably ought to have it, regardless of who or what is on board.

I also think you may want to consider adding a small blower to assist the heat exchange process. The small computer power supply motors come in a variety of sizes, run on 12 volts, and adapt very well.

I assume you looked through the detail photos in the Cabin and Interior section of the Library where the heater installation photos are displayed.

Have fun with it, it's a fun project because it's not easy!

Good Luck!

Joe.

colobear · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:02 am Post subject:

Well, I clearly hit the keyboard before reading and getting brain engaged. Since you are putting a Force Ten in, the placement of my Webasto is probably not very helpful to you Smile

Darn senior moments! Enjoy your warm cabin, I sure do.

Rock-C · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:19 am Post subject:

Hi Lee
I too have an older C-Dory that came without heat. I like the Force 10 heaters, and several people on this board have done a fine job installing them. I didn't want to give up the space on the counter, and wanted the heat down low. I choose the Dickinson Propane heater. There are safety issues with propane, same as the Force 10. The advantage of the Dickinson is, it takes the combustion air from the outside and exhausts the gases outside, by the use of a double wall exhaust stack. I mounted the heater under the galley sink. It takes up a lot of storage space, Cry

. I used stainless sheetmetal to fabricate a surround. After installation, I realized the sheetmetal was not really needed as the heat is directed outward with the internal fan. If the weather is cold and we plan on using the heater a lot, I remove the door under the sink. Otherwise we just open the door and fire up the heater. The dickinson also has a glass window so you can watch the flame. Just like sitting in front of the fireplace at home Wink

Good luck whatever you do.
Terry

Lee · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:

Thanks Terry Thumbs Up

I checked out your photos and it looks like you have a great setup. Did the heater come with the flexible double wall pipe or did you find it elsewhere?

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject:

Lee-

Rock-C brings up the other choice of the Dickinson Propane Fireplace.

I considered this heater too, and I actually like it's closed in design better than the Force-10 Cozy Cabin, but the bigger hole required for it's intake/exhaust was a negative to me at the time. However, properly done, it doesn't make any difference how big a hole you make, as long as it's sealed and heat insulated right!

Look over to the right side of your helm..... There's a space that's unused to the right of your feet up under the gunnel. A closed in heater like the Dickinson would fit right in there if you can figure out how to route the larger duplex tube required up and around the motor controls and window.

I think it's possible that the intake/exhaust tube, which is self insulated and cooling, could be led aft under the window and then up the side of the fiberglassed cabin space that's between the front sliding and rear fixed windows, then out the roof. This would require some home-made special brackets to hold the flexible stainless tubing, but would allow you to 1) use this unused space, 2) keep the refrigerator space for other storage, and 3) get the heater down near the floor where you want it.

The downside is that it might be pretty warm on your right leg while underway, but I doubt that would be too much heat, and a removable shield could be improvised if necessary when running underway with the heater on. I also believe the blower fan in the heater should help carry away the heat pretty well, and that the Dickinson is more of a fan-assisted convection heater as opposed to the Force 10, which is more of a radiant heater. Maybe someone who has one can assist us on this matter.

Anyway, it's another alternative to consider!

Joe.

Rock-C · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject:

Lee.
The dickinson came with a stainless flexable exhaust that would by plenty long if you mounted it on the counter. But, it will not reach from the floor. If you try to price out double wall stainless tube, you will be in for a shock. What I used is galvinized flexable tube. I found some the right size at an auto parts store. It is not as shinny as stainless, but it is what I could afford and it does the job.
Joe
This heater could be mounted on the counter, or under the sink, even under the seat. But next to the pilot seat would blow you right off the seat. Ya, cutting that big hole in the roof took some time. I measured, measured, and measured some more.
I am happy with how it truned out.
Terry

Chris Bulovsky · Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject:

Terry- Wow!!!! That looks fantastic! Nice Job! I see you thought this one out. Well done! I hope what ever fixed heater I wind up installing looks half as good as that. DANG! Shocked

Very inspiring to see what others come up with.

What spot did you wind up putting the propane?

Thanks for the idea!

Chris Bulovsky
Washburn Wi

Dora~Jean · Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:

Maybe a Wallas heater isn't under consideration, but I installed a Wallas 1300 heater under my cabinet (CD-25), routed the combo exhaust/intake pipes out the side near the bottom of the side trim stripe. This heater lends itself well to out-of-the-way installations, fully automatic only one switch ON/OFF. So far it has worked flawlessly on Klean-Heat (only). See my photo album for details on the installation and there is a write up on my considerations before and after. I'll be glad to answer any questions. Good luck on your choice, heat on board is the cat's meow!!