Navigating after sunset

[Sea Wolf]

colobear wrote:

"When trying to thread a needle like Deception Pass or a constricted harbor, if there's any light, try opening the window and steering by feel."

Just a question for those who have experience with this:

Would steering from a flying bridge be better than from inside a cabin because of the lack of the glass enclosure's interference and internal reflections, and the height advantage, all else being equal, such as having the same instrumentation at both helms?

Intuitively, I think I'd prefer to be up on top above as much interference as possible with my senses able to see, hear, and feel out beyond the boat. (The Old Sailor inside me thinks/knows this is right!)

Joe.

[Robbi]

If I get caught out after dark (the fish must have been biting) I like to have my line of sight as low as possible so that I can line up a shore light with my direction of travel. If that light disappears, I know something has come between my boat and the shore. Could be a bouy, an anchored boat, a log. But whatever, I want to steer clear. I go ever so sloooow. I wouldn't try this in an unfamiliar area. Too chicken. Robbi

[drjohn71a]

The rooftop helm on my old houseboat was away from distracting light and good in that way, but, as just mentioned, something about being up that high can throw off your lateral line senses, so best to get down to sea level for close work, I think.

Also, I tried different things, but found the following to help alot:

1 - find some cloth that can be draped over the instrument lights to dim them way way down. Some, red, silky things can be seen thru in a pinch.

2 - turn off ALL sources of light in the cabin, cover the bowrails with hot water pipe, foam insulation.

3 - stick your head out of the window alot, stop engines and listen for others, obstacles being slapped by waves or surf, if applicable.

4 - use a hand held spotlite held outside the window, sparingly

5 - as mentioned, "distant" lites can be misleading, lite patterns can be misleading. Try slow "esses" as entering tight channels to make the lights spread out and so you can get differing perspectives, and pick out the distant from the near.

6 - remember, it doesn't cost a thing to slow down, or stop and re-evaluate the situations.... haste can be the killer... or troublemaker at nite.
Also, West Marine has a light "template", thing that allows you to analyze light patterns and determine if the lights ahead are a tow, or smaller craft, or dredge, etc.. Good thing to practice with some nite overlooking a bay.

John

[Da Nag]

[Sea Wolf]

Wile I'm thinking about it, a "Night Vision" electronic optical multiplier would be an invaluable tool if you were going to do a lot of this type of nighttime navigating. The military uses these devices to fly helicopters, drive tanks, pilot boats, and the like at night.

There are three generations of them thus far, each generation representing a higher level of technology. The prices go up with the level of sophistication. A lot of the less expensive stuff is made in Russia currently.

West Marine used to have a very good technical discussion of these devices in their West Marine Advisor product selection guides, but it has been reduced a lot in total content, and is now on page 805 of their 2006 catalogue. It is not available on line at this time as far as I can tell (sad loss!) Here's a LINK to their night vision products for perusing.

Thanks for all your comments so far!

Joe.

[Captains Cat]

[drjohn71a]

OH Gosh, Bill, I stepped right into that..... I should have said: " 1- drape a manly, wool blanket over the instrument panel in a tight situation"

wel, that's not that good either, so... "1- cover instuments with blanket or clothing in the event of minimalized visual-optic performance."

My military roots coming out there..... John

[Sea Wolf]

Yup, I remember the reference to colors of instrument lights vis-a-vis' night vision instruments. Last time around on this discussion was 1-1/2 or two years ago, I think.
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The problem is that the night vision instruments work at low frequencies which are mostly red and infared wavelengths, and they are blinded by the red instrument lights used to preserve out natural night vision.

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I'll look it up and post the link here.

ON EDIT: I looked through 17 pages of 822 threads and didn't find it from the titles! Shows just how important it is to have the subject correctly included in the thread title, and also how hard it is to find something with the search engine, since there are so many matches.

The other problem is that we keep cycling through the same topics, and it's hard to be sure each time through is a complete discussion w/o leaving something out. Makes it harder when you can't find the previous ones because of the problems above.

Joe.
[/b]

[lloyds]

If I had a flybridge I would definitely be up there, no matter what the weather. I used to stand up on the stern of my sailboats and hold on tight to the backstay or tether so I could get up away from any lights and engine noise. It just takes a few feet of separation to totally change your environment. Up there sometimes you can see those crab pots or logs or containers. There is an amazing amount of junk out on the open water. Once saw a refrigerator come swirling up near Deception Pass.

[Sea Wolf]

[thataway]

Definately a flying bridge is better--less glare from instruments--I would rather follow a single dim compass than loose my night vision due to other lights/plotters etc.

I have gen II night vision system--and am not all that impressed for boating use. The green light is enough that it compromises my night vision (I haven't tried it since I had catarrac surgery--it may work better).
The problem is that you have to have the general picture--boats, shore line etc---plus be able to see debris in the water--and the debris may just be a different or disturbed reflection. I find it best for looking for dark boats as I come into an anchorage--but underway there are too many lights which wash it out--plus the resolution is not ideal.

I have no problem with open water at night--what I don't like is closed harbors--or croweded water ways. We "had" to find a TV Station somewhere on the ICW to watch the Super Bowl in 1984--so we ran until our antenna picked up an ABC station--Marie was on the top of the pilot house, with a spotlight--and I had the auto pilot remote, with my face stuck in the Radar, using the joy stick like a video game to keep the boat right in the center of the ICW.

This multiple death accident in Miami last weekend is a result of running too fast (the 35 foot Intrepid), the two boats being towed not having any lights, background lights, and possiably alcohol. It was a set up for diseaster. The only time I go out into crowds during night is 4th of July--and I stay at anchor for half an hour after all have left. One year, as I was dropping friends off at their dock, a pontoon boat pulled up and if he continued up the Bayou (which at that point was a dead end) would he find the Navy Point Marina. I hated to tell him that he was 3 miles up a bayou, which was 5 miles from where he wanted to be! And-he didn't have a compass or depth finder. The moral, is know exactly where you are going--and your location at any one instant.

[splitshot]

I've been boating on the Mississippi river for 50 years and I still don't feel comfortable at night. For one thing there isn't usually anyone out there to help you out if something would happen. Sometimes we have 5 to 8 mph current to deal with( 3 all the time) not to mention the logs, bouy's and old concrete nav. hazards, boat cowboys, and barges. The only time I feel halfway comfortable is on a full moon. For some reason I like the open boats for floating. The darn cabin gets in my way of looking for problems. ....... Talk about rails blinding you --I forgot to take my bow flag down one night and I hit it with my spotlight and I couldn't see a thing for longer than I felt comfortable with. My rails gave me trouble also so I put black electrical on the inside of them and that helped a lot. I haven't had anybody notice the tape so I don't think it takes away from the looks of the boat.

[Sawdust]

I saw "Dusty" mentioned in a download, so gotta quit rockin' and start mouthing off. Oh my goodness, don't like to talk much about boating at night. Charlie said it very well - don't unless you know what's out there. Much of my boat driving has been at night - 1/2 of the years since 1933 on a bridge is way too much night time. Travelling through the Russian "fishing" fleet at 30+ knots ain't for the faint of heart - nor is night boating above idle speed in our log-jammed NW waters. At least, with the big ships you usually destroy the evidence.

Sure agree with Bob. Sailing at night, counting the stars, enjoying the night sounds, is emotional experience beyond description. And sometimes we do take the C-Dory out at night (idle, man, idle) and just drift. Have a sundowner, feed the ducks and snow geese. watch the seals come alongside to check us out, try to remember all of the various navigation stars (now that's a mind-awakener). Great way to go.

If, like Joe, I boated on Lake Shasta I'd go out in a heartbeat. The EQ gang is down there right now, and you can bet they boat at night. In unfamiliar waters go only if it's an emergency unless you are a professional or are proficient in all of your electronic toys, and professionals only go when required.

Open bridge is best for me in any limited visibility situation.

Dusty

[thataway]

Dusty reminded me of one of the most magical nights of Marie and my lives. We were anchored on the West Side of Admiralty Island, AK, on our way to Pack Creek behind an islet in Gambier bay. We could hear the whales breaching in Stephens Passage, so about 1 AM we hopped in the RIB and slowly worked out way into the passage. We turned off the engine, and drifted for about two hours, slowly sipping our wine and listening to the whale's sounds and occasionally seeing one breaching near us. The night is truely magical at sea. I always enjoyed my night watches--but virtaully no traffic--slow pace in a sailboat.

[Sea Wolf]

Dusty and all-

Actually, Lake Shasta, except for the marinas and the I-5 bridge, is totally black at night and therefore without any reference points at all unless the Moon's out.

You can still telll directions by the stars, of course, and the compass and radar give direction as well, but you can't really see anything to speak of, and the long, fairly narrow arms of the lake with their hundreds of coves, change shape as the water falls and rises with the seasons.

Islands pop up and sink again with the changing water levels.

Plus, there's just not much to go looking for at night, either!

But I have spent some nights at the lake where a moonlight canoe/kayack ride is pretty magical!

Also, it's fun to turn the boat's light's on and fish and swim at night, and if beached, a campfire lights up the night as well as folks' spirits.

For the most part, I drop the hook and stay put until the Sun returns to light the landscape.

Joe.