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Help with manual head!!
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Jeff and Julie



Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
City/Region: Juneau, AK
Vessel Name: Atka
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Help with manual head!! Reply with quote

We are a little embarrassed to post this topic but we have never owned a boat with a head before and we are not really sure how to take care of it properly. The manual really isn't helpful with the questions that we have and we have tried the internet but not found any real specifics from actual users. We would appreciate any help that anyone could give us!!
Here are some of the questions:

1. How often should you pump out? We do after every trip but still have a really foul sewage smell when flushing??? This is our main concern!!! It is not in the cabin at all but is quite strong when out in the cockpit.
2. How often should chemicals be used? Should you add at the beginning of every trip?
3. When you are pumping out, should you refill with fresh water and then pump out again?
4. When should you use the macerator? Every time you flush, before you pump out, etc.? We are using it every time we flush.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Jeff and Julie
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Alyssa Jean



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2375
City/Region: Guemes Is.(Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Alyssa Jean
Photos: Anna Leigh and Alyssa Jean
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The waste system on your boat consists of three main parts. Toilet, a holding tank, and a macerator pump, plus a couple of sub parts.
I am assuming you have a manual head and not a vacuflush model. The head has a manual pump and a lever that in one position is pumping in sea water (or fresh water if you are in fresh water) to actually flush the head into the holding tank, and the other position will not introduce water, but empty the rest of the contents of the bowl into the tank. You should have already added about 8 oz of a holding tank deodorizing liquid to the tank via the toilet. If you are on a trailer you can add water to the bowl manually. This should keep the odors in check. The water comes throught an through hull opening on the bottom of the boat which also has a valve on it which must be open. It is under the step as you enter the cabin. Usually you pump a little water into the bowl, do your business and then pump more water with the hand pump until you have emptied the bowl. Then switch the lever and finish emptying the bowl. Everything you just pumped will go to the holding tank, which is about 24 gallons. You should be using marine type toilet paper and not household type. Marine paper disintegrates much faster.
You can see the level in the tank visually. The tank on a 25 is dead center under the motor well. There are two options for emptying the tank. Pump-out stations which are at most marinas and are free usually. This involves putting a vacuum looking hose and nozzel into the WASTE outlet on your port rear gunnel and when actuated will basically suck out the contents of the tank into the pumpouts receiving tank. Rubber gloves are a good thing to carry for the task.
The macerator pump is only used when discharging the contents of the holding tank directly into the body of water you are in. In the US this can only legally be done in open water and several miles away from land. Can't remember the actual distance. In other words you can never use the macerator pump and discharge into any lake or stream or for example anywhere in Puget Sound or the San Juans. You would have to go out into open ocean several miles.

In Canada you can discharge into open waters, but not in bays or inlets etc. So for example you can't discharge on the US side of the International Border, but if you go a a little distance into Canada you can.

Back to the macerator pump. There is an outlet valve on the discharge side of the pump which by law must be kept closed when in US waters. This is against the port side and accessed throught the port floor hatch. If the CG does a boat check on you and it is found in the discharge position you can get a sitation. So keep it closed always. You should not run the macerator pump with that valve closed as that could burn out the pump. You do not use the macerator pump at a pump out station.

If you are using a good deoderant of the proper amount for your tank size you shouldn't get any smell when flushing as it is a closed system. ( Assuming you have the discharge valve closed.) You should only need to pump out when the tank is nearing full and then you would need to add more deoderant.

Hope this is helpful.

After looking at most of your posts I now find you have a Kingfisher. So the locations of valves are not accurate for your boat.

Quote:
e went with an aluminum pilot house called a Kingfisher. "Fishin is the Mission" with Jeff and I wanted a little bit of comfort. This boat seems to be a great happy medium for both of us.

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Alyssa Jean 16 Angler
Anna Leigh 22 Cruiser Sold 2005
Anna Leigh 25 Cruiser Sold 2014

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Jeff and Julie



Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
City/Region: Juneau, AK
Vessel Name: Atka
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks David and sorry I didn't advise of a different boat. I think most all of what you have told me still applies to our setup as well. I guess I need to get a schematic of our system and see if we use our water on board or draw from outside water.
I appreciate all of your help with this. Do you ever run vinegar through your system?

Thanks,
Julie
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lloyds



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1724
City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the time the smell isn't from the tank, but from the hoses. Raw salt water comes into the hoses and head and is full of organisms. Some die there, others take up residence. Pretty soon it really starts to smell. The holding tank is easy to maintain and treat. The hoses are a little tougher. There is an optional treatment bottle you can install in the intake hose which will help. I would recommend it.
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Jeff and Julie



Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 287
City/Region: Juneau, AK
Vessel Name: Atka
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Lloyds. We will look into this!!

Jeff and Julie
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer to smelly tanks, hoses, macerator pump burnout, prohibitions on discharge, lack of available pumpouts and all the other horribles of the standard marine head is simple - the Airhead Composting Marine Toilet. The Port Potti may be the best solution for a CD22, but the Airhead really is the best solution for a CD25. We have had one for a year, and is better than a Porta Potti because you don't have to worry about finding places frequently to empty it. Here is the link.
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http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com

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lloyds



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1724
City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I ponder and plan for the next stage/next C-Dory in my life I find myself returning to the Airhead. I am really going to look into these. I have finally adapted to the portapotti. The Airhead must be a monumental step up in ease and convenience. I wonder if a distributor will show up at the boatshow this year?
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lloyds



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1724
City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you found everything said in the link to be representative? It seems incredibly simple.
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sportner



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 386
City/Region: Buckeye
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Model: 26 Osprey
Vessel Name: Glory Days
Photos: Traveler
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat,
Are you going with an Airhead if get a C-RANGER 25 ? Can it be installed at the factory ? Can the liquids be transferred directly to a holding tank ? And, what method is used fir solids disposal ? Thanks...

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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the info on the web site pretty much sums it up, it could not be much simpler. You empty the liquid tank fairly frequently, but as urine is sterile (strange but true) it is not a big deal. The solids tank they say is good for 80 uses on average - we went the better part of a year before emptying it for the first time, iincluding weekend use and an eight day trip to Desolation Sound. Then we emptied just before taking off for Alaska, and it got Daydream from Blaine, WA, to Ketchikan and back, over a month of use by 3 people for 2 weeks (trip up and around SE) and 2 people for 2 weeks+ (trip back). There is virtually NO odor, unless you are right next to the exhaust on the cabin roof. There is nothing to break or replace, except the exhaust fan, which it turns out is just a readily available low amperage 12 volt computer CPU cooling fan. People on this site have tended to be generally skeptical, but this is a perfect head for the CD25 or C-Ranger 25.


lloyds wrote:
Have you found everything said in the link to be representative? It seems incredibly simple.
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We specified on our C-Ranger 25 order sheet to delete the marine head - if we get the C-Ranger, we will go with the Airhead, which we will purchase and have the factory install. Solids compost to a near dirt state. You then put that in a black garbage bag for a couple of more months to compost further, according to the directions. I just buried it on the far edge of the yard...somehow I don't see spreading it in the flower garden, even if it DOES look just like steer manure... Laughing


sportner wrote:
Pat,
Are you going with an Airhead if get a C-RANGER 25 ? Can it be installed at the factory ? Can the liquids be transferred directly to a holding tank ? And, what method is used fir solids disposal ? Thanks...
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sportner



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 386
City/Region: Buckeye
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Model: 26 Osprey
Vessel Name: Glory Days
Photos: Traveler
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the fan runs all the time, isn't there an unpleasant odor downwind of the vent ? That could make new friendships difficult. And can the liquids go to your holding tank for pumpout ? I don't know where the holding tank would be on the R-25, but if it were eliminated it could possibly allow for more storage. If this belongs in another forum I'm sorry, just answer where ever its appropriate. Thanks.
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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1820
City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say, Pat, I was thinking of following your lead on the Airhead, but looking at the dimensions on their site, do you think an Airhead toilet will fit into the C-Ranger 25 head compartment? From what I can see, it looks like the head itself is angled from the back corner. Would there be room to open the doors or drawers or crank in there?

John

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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1820
City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff and Julie - Re: your Tank Odors -

One of the things that can easily happen on a boat's holding tank is that the contents of a partially full tank can slosh up the side and stick there. When you add water and chemicals, it may not touch these "sloshed" areas up the walls of the tank. Periodically you have to put chemicals into the holding tank and fill it almost completely up and drive (or boat) around for awhile so the "sloshed" stuff on the walls can soften and fall off and be exposed to the holding tank chemicals.

This is more likely to happen when the meticulous owners pump out the tank when it is only partially full.

This happens on motorhomes alot. John
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8551
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope. We had a problem once (folks at the Bellingham CBGT might recall), won't go into the details - but dockside at all other CBGTs there was virtually NO odor. Which, I assume is less than folks are finding with standard marine heads...


sportner wrote:
If the fan runs all the time, isn't there an unpleasant odor downwind of the vent ?
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