Anchor Deck Pipe or Windless?

AnchortownJim · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:15 pm Post subject: Anchor Deck Pipe or Windless?

As an owner of a new 22' Cruiser, I am faced with the dilemma of which way to go with getting the anchor rode into the below deck locker. I've read all the posts on this site and remain undecided. While a windless would be nice, the extra wiring and battery drain are real deterrents to going that way. On the other hand, the thought of having to be on the foredeck in bad weather to recover the anchor rode is not real appealing. My current anchor system is: 400' of 1/2", 25' chain, 16.5# Bruce anchor.

If I go with a windless, I am impressed with the Aries Quick 500 unit, spoken highly of on this site. Can the house battery handle the load of the windless without being too severely drained? I have both a house and starting batteries. Would a third battery be a good idea?

If I go with just a anchor deck pipe, I would use one of those float recovery systems to bring up the anchor. How well do those float recovery systems work for bringing up the anchor?

Your experienced thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

TyBoo · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:45 pm Post subject:

Hi Jim -

For me, it is no question. A windlass is the only way to do 'er. I had one on the CD 22, and I have another one to go on the CD 25. The first one was a S/L Horizon 600 which was trouble free through quite a bit of use, so the second one is the same model. I have heard nothing but good about the Aries units, and they certainly have a cleaner look to them than the above deck style, so I don't think you could go wrong there.

The reason the windlass is a must for me is that I anchor a lot in the river where there is almost always a good current. Somebody has to be at the helm when the anchor is pulled free, so if I want to go fishing alone, I need the electric help.

Your other concerns are really nothing to worry about, I think. It is a good idea to have the main engine(s) running whenever dropping or weighing anchor, so the the charging circuit will be making up a good part of the battery load while the windlass is in use. I had two batteries on the CD 22, and the main motor (Honda 75) had only a 16 amp charging circuit. When paying out line, the windlass was using probably 15 amps or less, so I just shut the motor down when set and never had a problem. When pulling the anchor up, the windlass could draw as much as 35 amps, but since the main motor was going to be in use after the anchor was up anyhow, the extra drain was made up by the time I got to the next spot. Never even a hint of a battery problem.

The wiring has to be pretty husky all the way to the battery, but it only has to be done once, so other than the slight extra cost for the initial install, it is a snap.

Well, you aksed for it! Good luck.

B~C · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:35 pm Post subject:

dittos what Mike said, you would have the engine running when operating the windlass so battery drain isn't a big issue. The wiring for the windlass is pretty straight forward. I used to use one of the anchor retrevial sytems with the float, storing the float is a pain in the #&&........much easier to see around a windlass on the bow than a big float. Another big plus for the windlass is the ease of picking up and moving to another fishing spot.

MOOSE · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:31 pm Post subject:

Howdy,
I installed an Aires Quick 500 last spring and I like it a lot. I bought it through an Ebay auction for a substantial savings, which is a good thing since the cost of the 6 ga. wire from the stern to the windlass will make you weep. One drawback is that the rode I chose is from West Marine and a bit stiffer than what Marisafe (the Aires dealer) recommends. So most times I have difficulty getting the rope-to-chain splice to pass through the windlass. If I could figure out how to apply a bit more spring tension to the keeper, things might improve. Anyway, I highly recommend this unit.
Al

Adeline · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:37 pm Post subject:

For 14 years I've been retrieving the hard way. 250' of 3/8" New England and 15' of 1/4" proof coil chain. All stored in a milk crate on the foredeck. I switched to an 11# Bruce after my Danforth repeatedly fouled on rocks and beer cans. I often boat alone and most of my time is on the Columbia where there is no swinging to speak of. I've thought about getting a windless but wonder @ the cost of it with wiring, switches, et al. Also, what about the moisture brought aboard with all that wet line. Massive condensation? So far, too much uncertainty for me. One thing's for sure, though, that Aires Quick is a gourgeous piece of equipment. Pete

Adeline · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:41 pm Post subject:

Sorry, make that gorgeous.

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:47 pm Post subject:

Ya know, I was worried a little about the moisture under the deck myself when I put the windlass on my CD22. (I am on the same river, and the moisture in the air is bad enough.) I found it to be no problem, though. All I did was install a good drain overboard for the anchor locker. My new boat has an enclosed rode locker with a sealed hatch door. I think I prefer the open and visible style.

I also used the milk-crate-on-the-bow method for the first season. I would open the foreward hatch and stand on the v-berth cushion up through the hole to retrieve. It was easy to get the rode in the crate, but I imagine it might be tricky to feed it through a hawes pipe from that position.

Cheers · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:46 pm Post subject:

I also installed a windless last year & haven't had a moisture problem. Didn't even install a drain (yet). I'm also on the Columbia.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:34 pm Post subject:

I was the first to discover the Aires 500 unit on ebay from Marisafe and install it. I've had only the one problem also mentioned by Moose (Al) regarding the "hard" rode presented by the West Marine (New England Ropes) nylon rode and splice. The tech rep at Marisafe arranged to have my existing chain spliced to 1/2" polyester 3-strand anchor line, which is softer and more supple to allow it to wind around the windlass's gypsy. After a few uses, the splice is softening up and now goes through no problem, but it will be several months, perhaps a year, to see if the fix is a final cure.

SO, IF YOU'RE BUYING AN AIRES 500 FROM MARISAFE, BE SURE TO JUST GO AHEAD AND MENTION THIS PROBLEM TO THEM AND ARRANGE FOR A 1/2" CUSTOM 3-STRAND POLYESTER ROPE SPLICED TO YOUR CHOICE OF LENGTH OF 1/4" PROOF HIGH TEST CHAIN TO AVOID THE COST OF REPLACING THE ROPE PORTION DOWN THE ROAD A YEAR OR SO!

Electrically, the Aires is flawless, and strong as an ox. I think it's much more aesthetically pleasing than the above deck "horizontal" units, and doesn't take up any space inside that's used for anything else. (See the pictures in the Anchoring section in the Library.

Water aboard and condensation are, for me, non-issues. I postponed installing the drain because of sealing issues between the inner anchor locker wall and the outer hull wall, but have found it an unnecessary feature. Perhaps someone who used the boat much more than I do would notice condensation or need a drain. I have, in reserve, the same chromed and threaded Perko fuel vent fitting that Mike used on the Tyboo I. I'm sure it's the best of the alternatives available if you determine that you need a drain. Joe.

MOOSE · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject:

Hi Joe,
I was just down at the MOOSE today installing a drawer over the water tank. It being +35F, as opposed to -35F, it ain't half bad working bare handed. I've given the splice passage issue with the Aires a lot of thought, and in fact looked at it again today. Do you think one could drill and tap a couple of holes on the side of the windlass housing and bolt on perhaps a half inch wide piece of spring steel that would extend and lay along side the "keeper", as I call it, to provide a bit more "squeeze" when the splice passes through? I think with a little more pressure, pushing the splice into the gypsy, it would pass through. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how to apply more pressure in a simple and aesthetically pleasing manner.
Al

AnchortownJim · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:54 pm Post subject:

Well, you all have convinced me to go with a windless vice just an anchor deck pipe. Guess I'll start looking for the best deal I can find for an Aries Quick 500 windless.

It is good to hear that moisture in the cabin from the wet rode being brought on board is not a big issue. I was planning on installing a Nicro "Day/Night" vent in the middle of the hatch to vent the V-birth area and will still do so.

Also good to hear that the rode locker drain is not a big necessity. My thoughts on that were to not drill through the hull, but to simply run a piece of tubing from the bottom of the rode locker to be connected to the left over drain tubing from the ridiculous ice box I took out, along the V-birth. That would allow any water in the bottom of the rode to drain to the bilge to be pumped overboard with the rest of the bilge water. I plan on building a set of drawers to replace the ice box, another great idea from this group.

Thank you again for your input,

Jim

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:16 pm Post subject:

Al- I believe your analysis is correct. If I stand on deck and push against the plastic "keeper" or "finger" with the side of my shoe, it solves the problem, so you're right about the need for just a little more pressure to hold the rode splice against the gypsy in order to help the teeth push the splice around the gypsy and down through the opening and into the locker below.

When I talked to Steve Paley, the Tech Rep from Marisafe, where we bought the Aires, he cautioned me against modifying the windlass in any way, because it would void the warranty, which, if I remember correctly, is for three years.

If we can devise an aesthetically pleasing "pusher" or "ram" that does not directly attach to the windlass itself, I think we'll have solved the problem without getting into warranty issues.

I thought of making up a remote corded switch that could be handed up through the front hatch then operated on deck while pushing with my foot, and, although it would work, one of the great advantages of the windlass is not having to go up on the deck, especially when in rough dangerous seas, or when needing to operate the engine simultaneously.

I might still make up the remote corded switch, but we need to solve the problem with a good looking pusher that can be activated when needed remotely, either with a line or electrically. Applying constant pressure via a spring or shock cord would also work. I believe if we push on the finger itself constantly, we'll tend to wear it out prematurely. This design project will take a few serious hours of thought. I'll work on it here. Let me know what you come up with. We'll work it out.

There's another approach that I'm also thinking about. The windlass (like most all others) is actually designed for European or metric sized ropes and chains. Since the problem seems to be the size of the doubled back area of the splice, maybe a 7/16 or metric (smaller) rope would present a smaller splice that would be easier to pass around and through the gypsy. We'll have to ask Steve about this. Marisafe's specs say you can use the windlass with 7/16' line.

A final thought would be to figure out a different type of splice where the three strand would merge with the chain more gradually without doubling back, more of a merging interwoven splice without a severe doubleback. Even if it meant re-splicing periodically to replace rope worn at the splice, it might be preferable to an additional mechanical device. We'll figure this out, sooner or later! Joe.

MOOSE · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:32 pm Post subject:

Hi Joe,
I'm glad for your thoughts. What we have done as a stop-gap solution is to have Myrna pop through the deck hatch and push on the "keeper" as necessary with a short piece of 1/2" pvc tubing, her fingers being quite valuable and delicate, as you can understand. I guess I'm not too worried about voiding any warranty, as I don't think the thing is likely to fail in my lifetime anyway; mainly I want it to work without additional hassle. Next time you're up at your boat, take a look and see if an additional spring might do the trick. I think if it were adjusted properly, it would not need to apply additional pressure all of the time, but only when the fat splice goes through. I agree; this one is worth working on, I believe we'll conquer it, and I appreciate your assistance.
Al

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:37 pm Post subject:

Jim- You may have more of a moisture problem in Alaska than we do down here, but the vent in the hatch will certainly air out the v-berth area and help solve the problem.

I like your idea of draining the locker out through the now unused hull fitting that was formerly used by the under helm seat ice box. How are you going to get access to both sides of the bottom of the anchor locker and then through the flotation chamber that makes up the v-berth platform? Do you plan to install inspection ports in the chamber through which to make the connections? I'm assuming your Cruiser is built much the same as mine ("87). The bottom of the anchor locker is, as I remember, about 6-8 inches or so below the surface of the v-berth. Joe.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:37 pm Post subject:

For those of you contemplating purchasing an Aires 500 Windlass, here's the info on the purchase price. I bought mine about a year and a half ago when Marisafe was auctioning off new ones on e-bay. The minimum bid price was $409, which turned out to be the final cost, plus shipping. Later, they bumped this up to $449. Currently, I don't see any of their Windlasses listed on e-bay, and their on-line catalogue price is $484 for members and $584 for non-members (a membership costs over $100). Call them up and ask for the lowest price possible, or just offer them $448 and see if it will fly. Good luck! Joe.