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Dora~Jean



Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 1501
City/Region: Simi Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Dora~Jean
Photos: Dora~Jean
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, good explanation, understood completely. That's pretty much how I operate also, 1 engine only, keeps my 'variables' limited. And, that's also how I dock to port, port engine only, slight angle, port engine in reverse at the right moment.

I'm just wondering for a tight slip or between boats how I could better utilize the twins to position better. Might have to get a book on twins, but most likely they'll be for bigger boats and have counterrotating props. I'll do a little research...

Steve
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DaveS



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 3204
City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anna Leigh wrote:
(Thanks Dave I needed this post to get me to 700)


David, I'm glad that I was able to motivate you to achieve post number 700!

Since you and Pat share ownership of the same brewery, I've been trying to discern why Pat is able to post more than twice the number as you. So far I've come up with only two possibilities.

1) You are the only one working and brewing up the brew, so don't have the time to post as often. Rolling Eyes

2) You are too busy drinking the brew and because of the 6.6% alcohol content unable to crawl over to a computer to post. Wink

Choice number 2 being said, I think I'll crawl downstairs to the refer and pull out another Wildcat IPA and consume it. Smile

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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5922
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

I have an alternate theory - perhaps Pat consumes more beer and the extra "lubrication" makes him more chatty. Hmmm, how do we test these competing hypotheses?.......

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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:15 pm    Post subject: Time to bring this thread back... Reply with quote

I received a PM this morning (a PM in the AM?) from another owner (who was also a sailor), asking how I'm doing with docking our new 25... well it certainly has been interesting. It took us a while to get comfortable with each sailboat, and I am hip-deep into my learning curve with Wild Blue. Here's my response:


Well, our "arrivals" have been interesting. There is a definite transition from having a rudder, huh? Wink The first time I pulled off power and turned the wheel was an eye opener. We have been fortunate that, so far with our learning curve, we haven't had to deal with a great amount of wind... yet. There have been a couple "push offs" and some moments of breath-holding... especially as the new gelcoat gets close to the BIG pilings, encrusted with oyster shells! With 4 whole days of experience, I an finding that I have to do the opposite of our sailboat technique (slow speed, in neutral much of the time, still with decent steerage) and use a bit more throttle. After a couple of "What the hell was that?" arrival comments from the Blonde, I did get a "That was nice!" as we pulled up to the pumpout station yesterday. Of course, no one else was around to see it. I'll have to work at it to convince her that it wasn't a fluke... 'cause coming back into the slip (and making plenty of leeway through the turn) was less than elegant.

We have left our camperback canvas in place all the time so far... and that makes docking even more interesting, since Joan has fewer options for being able to fend off. But, we are enjoying the extra living space, so I have been doing my best to deal with it.

It's a whole different world. Some of our sailing buddies have asked for photos and seem to be intrigued with the cabin space (and especially the inside steering). We are enjoying the expansive view from the cabin and not feeling like we are in a cave.

Our transient slip here in Olympia gives us a good view of the ramp... so I know I am not alone in my less-than-elegant technique. Wink But I will continue to work on it. I watched a guy with a 40+ foot older boat rotate it in the ramp area (no thrusters) - very impressive. My mind did wander into schemes of daggerboard, rudder, and a mast on this boat... yeah, probably would mess up the nice lines, huh? In the meantime, let's stay in touch and trade techniques.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

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CD-25 "Wild Blue" (sold August 2014)
http://captnjim.blogspot.com/

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Dora~Jean



Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 1501
City/Region: Simi Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Dora~Jean
Photos: Dora~Jean
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, thanks for taking the time to keep us filled in on your exploits, very interesting ...and entertaining [sorry] but we have all been there one time or another.

I can impart a little that might help, the 22's have nearly identical charactersistics and have been covered profusely throughout this site.

As you've probably read, the wind significantly affects these hulls, cabin windage forward and light front ends (and no keel!) seem to be the culprit. Best I can offer is that you'll have to be somewhat more aggressive than a sailboat in windy situations, it won't want to hold any heading towards the wind, even straight upwind (slowly). Best I've found as approaching a dock is to head directly into the wind trying to hold a course then during last few feet make your corrections to turn the boat, neutral then reverse engine(s) while turning so boat will slow and turn stern towards the dock (opposite steering direction while in reverse).

I always review what I plan to do with my first mate just before docking...no matter what. I also tell him/her which line I'd like tied first too: If docking with the wind forward of beam, then I have them tie the mid-ship line off first, if aft of beam then it's the stern cleat.

Experience is best teacher on every boat as you're learning in spades.

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Steve
"Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance" (Samuel Johnson)
Dora~Jean C-Dory 25 2002-Present
Corsair F-31 Trimaran 1996-2002
MacGregor 26X 1988-1996
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Wayne McCown



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 368
City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Little Mac
Photos: Little Mac
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Docking Technique Reply with quote

Note: I am asking a related question about "undocking." Because of the length of this thread (which has been very helpful), I am posting my question as a "new topic."
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Blueback



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 235
City/Region: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Blueback
Photos: Blueback
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
I’ve enjoyed these posts and especially the comments from the Marine Engineer (ME) and Sawdust. This just had to draw out memories and laughter (wasn’t so funny then).
Docking is an art form and we all aspirer to be good at it and even if we don’t make a stylish landing remember to see the funny side as you learn.
Now I will tell you what a real challenge is. Deep sea ships today have thrusters and tugs to assist them. Ferry’s have directional control of their trust on all four corners and instant wheelhouse throttle control.
Stepping back into my youth, my first ship as a ME was on a coaster passenger/freighter. The main engine was triple expansion steam engine. The bridge to engine-room communication system was a bass voice pipe. The telegraph for engine speed and direction was chain driven with slack in it so that ringing half a stern on the bridge end might not look exactly as half astern on the engine room telegraph end. In order to reverse the engine from ahead to astern the ME would close the steam throttle valve, start a small auxiliary steam engine to power the link to the slide valve that reversed the timed entry of steam to the engine. Then you re-open the steam throttle which would drive the engine in reverse, at the speed requested. In the mean time the firemen where running their ass off with changing demands on steam and steam pressure. We were about 3,500 tons DW with 2700hp. No tugs or thrusters, no auto controlled pitch on the propellers –nothing. Oh yes I forgot to say there was a “bow rudder” that had seized many years ago and was fixed to remain amidships.
Now feature making a landing at the end of the Portland Canal –Hyder Alaska/Stewart Canada. The Bear River flows out strongly affecting the ship’s port-landing and drives you onto the dock at a frightening pace. But hey a flood-tide may balance this off. But them a howling wind may blow down from the Salmon Glacier balancing the flood tide affect-or not. I was at times at the engine room controls for over an hour and more than 200 telegraph changes to speed and engine direction before we were securely docked . Many times this was a case of a nervous Captain who would come into the docking position to slowly and lose the ships steerageway. This was at times combined with not stopping to read the forces of wind and water ahead of time. You would at times come out of the engine-room madder than hell in a ball of sweat- mumbling about /*+-# timid greenhorn skippers. But then we would go ashore to Hyder AK and get Hyderised (a shot of white lightning and orange juice)-if you don’t know what that is your too young for this story.
When I look back now, close to fifty years ago and think about what these coastal merchant ship’s personal dealt with I’m amazed we ever got there and back without some real disasters.
So when hear stories of docking problems I laugh and remember everyone standing on the dock waiting for us, only to end up falling on their ass from a hard landing. And now you now why docking is an art form and I’m laughing if you think it’s hard in a C-Dory.

Geoff
On Blueback

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2-Catch fish -hopefully-
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Friendly neighbors... Reply with quote

A sailing buddy dropped me a note, asking about "feats of daring-do" with our new boat. I had to tell him that we are staying in a nice marina, doing day trips while we get more comfortable with this boat. And the rest of the note...

"Most of our "daring do" has to do with docking this boat. Frankly, we were darn good with the sailboats, but this powerstuff is a whole 'nother world. Seems that when you pull off the power, it doesn't matter how much you turn the wheel or cuss - the boat doesn't turn. May have something to do with the lack of a keel and rudder?

Fortunately, our dock neighbors have been very friendly. Each time we head out or come in, I hear people yelling, "Here he comes again!". And they scramble to the back of their boats with fenders and boat poles in hand. I think it's some sort of a local greeting ceremony. Wink

I think we're going to enjoy this type of cruising for a while. I am still a sailing-boy at heart (and in practice, with our SunCat back home)... even got a twinge as we motored by some sailboats yesterday... in the rain... with the temps in the 60s... those folks were in foulies, but still looked a bit chilled. Our windshield wipers got a workout, but we were dry and comfortable. The Blonde made us lunch while we were motoring along, and commented about the great view all around. Molly the catboat cat slept comfortably in the v-berth most of the time we were out.

There was one butt-puckering moment when we came in to the slip: I shifted from forward to neutral, planning a well-timed burst of reverse. Everything was going perfect... and then, 10 seconds from tying off, the motor stalled (no way to just rev it when its not in gear). The C-Dory is very stout and the front of the slip has a rubber rubrail. Only my pride was crushed (you should have seen the perfect landing I made when we came into the fuel dock earlier in the day - with no one watching, of course). I got the motor started and we tied off. While washing down the boat, one of the dock neighbors came by to say, "Yeah, that happens to all of us now and then. Why I remember..." I was fine while he recounted his docking tales - I just had to wince as he went through the play-by-play of my arrival.

The new boat is great; we are having a wonderful time."

Best wishes,
Jim B.
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SeaSpray



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 1006
City/Region: Brentwood, CA
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaSpray
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim,

We won't have to bother with docks at Catalina! I am looking forward to meeting you and seeing your new boat. You will be going past us in the Bay Area as you head down I5. We will be leaving Sat. 19th. Maybe we will wee you on the road.

Steve
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seabran wrote:
Hi Jim,

We won't have to bother with docks at Catalina! I am looking forward to meeting you and seeing your new boat. You will be going past us in the Bay Area as you head down I5. We will be leaving Sat. 19th. Maybe we will wee you on the road.

Steve


Hi Steve,
Looking forward to it! Except the "wee" part... not sure what that means with you Bay Area folks. Wink OK, that was a "just-funnin'" wink, not a "hey big boy" wink... oh, nevermind. Hope to see you at Catalina (it's gonna be hard to leave the beautiful PNW).

Best wishes,
Jim B.

PS - The docking wasn't much better today... Joan has the strength of an Amazon woman when she is in full panic mode... pushed me off the piling that we share the slip with and darn near into the next slip! Disgust Another 10-12 years, and I may start to get the hang of this.
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dogon dory



Joined: 10 Jun 2004
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State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: DogOnDory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

Last edited by dogon dory on Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1820
City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Jim, you remember that old saw, "Never approach a dock (float) any faster than you are willing to crash into it with." or something similar.

I have to admit that, after many boats and probably hundreds of docking dings ... or are those dings on the bow like the notches on a gunslinger's 45?

Anyway, go ahead and get that first nic/scratch over with and then you can relax and enjoy.

John

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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
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City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Jim, I kind of feel like you can compare the flat bottomed C-dory design with a light, surfing sail craft. They have such light contact with the water that they handle alot like a jet ski - you let up on the throttle, but the craft keeps on going. the displacement hulls engage more water, and slow more when you let off the throttle. Also, the biggest problem, that you already mentioned, is the lack of a keel upon which to pivot.

So, I try to think of the outboard as the "keel" , the pivot point, and imagine that I am piloting a sailboat from in front of the mast while I am piloting a motorized boat.

Just some crazy ways of looking at it! Good luck, JOhn
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Boat Billiards... Reply with quote

If nothing else, I am a determined sort. Yesterday, we went out into Budd Inlet and I practiced low speed maneuvering; I'd find a floating branch and practice putting the boat where I wanted alongside it. A couple hours worth. Then back into the marina, where mid-week there were plenty of empty slips on the transient dock. Forward in, aft in, this slip, that slip. Each time I'd ask, "Did I get it close enough that you could get off with a line in hand?" Joan did fend off a time or two, but we didn't whack anything or hit any other boats. In the end, she said I was getting it about 50% of the time. "Batting 500... not bad." She didn't get the baseball reference, after all this is boating; and I think she was grading me more on a school frame of reference (A=90-100%, B=80-90%... well, you can see where this is going Crook ). From my end, I am getting the boat where I want it more often than the first few days. Still somewhat humbling, though.

We had supper and great conversation with Dave (Oldgrowth) and his wife last night - a real cap to our time here. Pulling the boat out later this morning to take her back to the factory for our break-in service and to have a few things addressed. When they turn us loose, we're looking to head north... there are people in boats up there who haven't heard about us yet, so we may be allowed in some of the marinas. Wink

There was a boat broker showing a family around yesterday while we were in the middle of our "boat billiards"... some concerned looks from the family as they watched our antics... pretty sure I could hear the broker say, "No, no. Boats are easy to steer. Really." Mr. Green Several others enjoyed the afternoon's entertainment from their cockpits... hey, it woulda been a quiet day around here without us... "Turn the other way. No, the other other way." Disgust

Riiiiight.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
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drjohn71a



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 1820
City/Region: Wichita
State or Province: KS
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Tom-a-Hawk
Photos: Tom-a-Hawk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim and Joan... Thanks so much for sharing your adventures and antics.

I noticed in your "Big Red" photo that you have a bed cover. A bit back, you mentioned wondering how El and Bill got all their stuff in the boat for their minimalist lifestyle. I once met El and Bill at the intracoastal waterway in Salisaw, OK, when they were preparing to go down the waterway to New Orleans. They have a collapseable top camper shell on the back of the pickup that they use as an "attic" to store whatever things they don't think they will be needing on the next leg of their trip. So, that gives them a bit more than double the normal storage area you'd get with a C-Dory alone.

Have fun and keep us posted on your wanderings! John
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